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View Poll Results: I _actually_ received my first COVID vaccine dose in...
Dec 2020 (or before) 2 3.17%
Jan 2021 7 11.11%
Feb 2021 6 9.52%
Mar 2021 16 25.40%
Apr 2021 11 17.46%
May 2021 6 9.52%
Jun 2021 10 15.87%
Jul 2021 0 0%
Aug 2021 1 1.59%
Planning not to vaccinate 4 6.35%
Voters: 63. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2021-09-27, 04:04   #254
LaurV
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Got my first shot of Pfizer on Sep 22, for free. Scheduled for second shot on Oct 14, for free too.

I could not escape, I was taken by force.

The "for free" part is important, and not (see below).

I mean, in the last 6-8 months it was a total confusion and political masturbation here around. At first it was impossible for farangs living in Thai to get the vac, who cares about farangs? (I still remember their PM saying on TV two or three years ago that Thailand don't need farangs, haha, that was just before all the tourism died, mother karma is a bitch sometimes).

Then they said you can get the sino[vac|farm] for a (not cheap!) fee, but no farang appeared interested (sure! as I said, I would get the vaccine only if it becomes mandatory, for example to travel for job or to visit family and relatives, in Europe or Australia, but sino was not recognized there, so it was futile for me anyhow - as a parenthesis in another parenthesis, my boss with family, and some of my German colleagues went to Germany to get the vac, stayed there a while to get the second dose, came back, did quarantine 14 days at the seaside in Phuket or so, there is a special "income area" there, which wastes a lot of time and costs a bucket of money).

Then, the local powers-to-be said they will not bring other vaccine in Thai (of course, they wanted to get rid of the sino stocks, which they bought most probably not cheap! - good money for some local lords) and they started vaccinating local people with sino and astra, first by choice, then mandatory, because they wanted to get the people immune, to let them travel around, as the local tourism and industry in some areas are almost dead**, and people were starting gathering... then by choice again, because people (general, I don't mean Thai, that's the same everywhere in the world) are fucking difficult to satisfy, or to oblige to do anything, if it is mandatory they won't do it unless you force them with a stick...

**(you should see the newspapers and tv interviews with politicians, etc., making plans about how many farangs will get the vaccine, and how many "rich tourists" they plan to get to Thailand, to take their money, sure, the rich farangs are stupid enough to come and spend their millions to have good time mostly stay in quarantine in south, at the sea side, well, but still a prison, where you are tested 2 times a day and have to pay for the tests by yourself - think about it, you just spend your day in quarantined area, where nobody is infected, in theory, as everybody was tested and it is kept under supervision, but yet, you still have to be tested daily and pay by yourslef for the tests, well, they cost peanuts, but still... Boneheads, like Ellen would say).

As always in times of crisis and confusion, some entities/people try to exploit the credulity of other entities/people, the biggest local hospitals started to make "lists" with people, so you could get vaccinated with moderna or pfizer "when the vaccine will become available", charging from $20 to $100 or more to put you on such list. Which was a big bullshit and I did everything possible to stay apart (everything possible means mostly ignoring them, or laughing out loud when somebody told me about such a "new list" - hey guys, I come from a communist country, and went through a "revolution" already, and I also read Naomi Klein, hehe). Some of my colleagues and friends from outside the company didn't get their money back yet, and still waiting (or fighting) to get them back.

So, with much of the local people vaccinated, and many provinces free to travel, there are no tourists yet. People have no jobs, as many industries are closed, hotels are closed because they had no activity for such a long time, and the seasonal workers went home to their provinces, families, etc., and people are afraid to go around because you don't know if you will be able to come back, there may be a new "red area" tomorrow and you will be forced to stay there, etc.

And parents are on the streets too, asking for open face-to-face teaching, they are tired of distance learning, having the kids at home all the day, putting up with their moods, needs, etc. Maybe now they will appreciate more what the teachers are doing at school... Didn't I say that mother karma is a bitch?

So, let's vaccinate local farangs, then, they would travel and spend the millions... (no joke, official words!) but nobody seemed interested in sinovac. And you can't force farangs to take it, they will leave and get the shot they want, outside.

Whatever, at the end, with some donations from Pfizer, with also the contribution of few local consulates of foreign countries (UK, Swiss, etc) the local gods got their hands on few tens of thousands Pfizer vaccines, and decided to vaccinate the farangs. First for a large fee, then for a smaller fee, then for free but only for people over 60 and/or people with diseases (diabetes, etc), then for "fat people" (yep, the official formulation! are you fat? you can get vac for free!), then local newspapers found that the donated vaccines were in fact earmarked for doctors, nurses, etc, medical personal who works on first line of defense, and for teachers, to facilitate reopening face-to-face teaching, and there was like a lot of such vaccines coming, their number in the millions in the next months, and they were donated, i.e. you were not supposed to pay a fee to get one...

So, as they decided to vaccinate the teachers, swmbo got a "secret link" in her email, from the school, where she, as a teacher, could register to get a Pfizer for free. I won't talk about the stupidity of the situation, anyhow, this was beginning of September. She went through the process and get scheduled on 22, but never in that process was she asked about being a teacher, or had to fill anywhere in the form such info, the only required thing was the visa type ("working visa"), so she decided to fill the forms for me too, and guess what, I also got scheduled on the same date. I should have had to drive her anyhow, to there, wait for her to get the shot, drive her back, as the place is not near, and she is not driving. So, why not to spend the time more effective, by getting myself a shot?

Well, at least that was her motivation, and no matter how hard I tried, I could sneak out of it, she grabbed me on my collar, and there we are ... We tried to get booked in the morning, there were four sessions at different times, but "there was no tickets left", so we got it scheduled in the afternoon (when there were another four sessions, at different times and they expected lots of people).

The week before the appointment we read on the official papers and they changed the requirements every day, or every two days.

First, it was "every farang over 50 can get the shot" for free. This was an improvement from the "over 60 only, or fat".

Second time, a day after, "everybody over 40 can get it, hurry up and book it! You don't need to be teacher, fat", etc.

Then, everybody can get it, but if you are not over 40, then you must have a work permit. Futile to say, the same link as swmbo got, was given each time, so everybody could see it. It didn't seem so "secret" anymore (I am still laughing thinking of the stupidity of the situation, what do you want to hide? What are you afraid off?).

Then, two days before the shot, we got an official email telling us that our appointment was scheduled for morning, as there will be no vaccination in the afternoon - not enough people.

We went there, they were very well organized (the "gathering" took place in a mall! not in a hospital! but Thais can be very efficient and very organized when they want to, this is a thing I always admired at them), we were done in about one hour, including the 20 minutes mandatory waiting after the shot (to check if you don't have any unwanted aftereffects). We counted about 200 people and estimate they were about 500 for all the fuss. There was no other date when the farangs were vaccinated with Pfizer in Chiang Mai. To our knowledge, there are many thousands of farangs living here.

Whatever... If I am still posting here, it means I didn't die, unless my ghost is the one posting. I didn't feel anything during the "stinging" process, the lady-nurse knew her trade very well, and she had a very light hand. Then I had a bit of muscular pain which started after about one hour or two, and got stronger and stronger in time, from "I don't care" to "it bothers me when I lift the arm" (like when you do some effort after a period of inactivity and you develop some muscular pain due to the lactic acid accumulating in your muscles, more a nuisance than a pain), with a peak at about 8 to 10 hours after the shot, then it receded and there was no symptom left of it after about 36 hours from the shot. It was the same for the wife.

Now, I still have a big dilemma, should I continue to talk, or should I not talk anymore with you, not-vaccinated people?

(we have this joke about two gypsy friends, they were best friends for many years, when they heard that if you swim across the Danube river during the Christmas Eve, you become white; so as they were pissed of being gypsies, they decided to try it, the water was freezing, but they swam, and swam, and swam, at last one of them reached the other side, while the other was still struggling to grab the shore, almost drowning, asked for help "give me a hand, I am sinking", the first replied "I don't talk to gypsies, I am white" )

We kind of expected the evolution of the facts to be like that, the factories, once the carousel started, produce now millions of vaccines per day, and that will be the biz of the future. You have a virus that doesn't give immunity, so you will need periodic boosts, every year, or every 6 months, you may guess that now the "economics", not the science, dictate the future actions.

Last fiddled with by LaurV on 2021-09-27 at 05:08
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Old 2021-09-27, 04:20   #255
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There was an NPR interview on the 17th of September that really got my attention: After Examining The Data, An Infectious Disease Expert Weighs In On Booster Shots
Quote:
NPR's Rachel Martin talks to Dr. Celine Gounder, an infectious disease specialist at NYU and an ex-adviser to the Biden administration, about whether she believes COVID-19 booster shots are necessary.
<snip>
KING: Is there any evidence that boosters can better protect vaccinated people from getting mild infections? Or are people who would get the booster going to get sick the way they did - they do with the vaccine, just not as severely as they would?

GOUNDER: I think it's really important that we reset expectations about what vaccines can or can't do. So if you give an additional dose of vaccine now, it would be normal for your antibody levels to spike but then to drop again. And so you could find yourself in a situation where you keep boosting and boosting and boosting just to prevent those milder breakthrough infections. And, in fact, Israel currently is looking at giving now fourth doses of COVID vaccine. And I just don't...

KING: Really?

GOUNDER: ...Think that's where we want to be going.

KING: OK. That's interesting - fourth doses. Does all of the debate around boosters and what I think you could legitimately call confusion in this country - does it worry you at all?

GOUNDER: Well, it does worry me in the sense that we haven't been very clear with the public about, what are we talking about when we talk about vaccine effectiveness? What are we actually trying to prevent? What is realistic given the vaccines that we have? And what's the end game here?

KING: Let me ask you about effectiveness 'cause I keep seeing this places, and I keep hearing people who are not experts make arguments based on this fact. So the CDC finds that the effectiveness of mRNA vaccines to stop a symptomatic infection has dropped just a little bit, from more than 90% effective to 80% effective. And you hear people saying, oh, my gosh; OK, this is a sign that we need to get everyone a booster. You take a look at that fact and you think what exactly?

GOUNDER: That's actually normal.

KING: OK.

GOUNDER: If your antibody levels didn't drop after every infection or vaccination, your blood would literally turn into a sludge of antibodies to all the infections and vaccinations you got over a lifetime. And so simultaneously to making antibodies, your immune system is also forming memories of that infection or vaccination in the form of memory cells. And those are poised to protect you against the virus later on. There's some time it takes for those to kick in. So you will have a breakthrough infection. But they protect you against severe disease, hospitalization and death.

Last fiddled with by Dr Sardonicus on 2021-09-27 at 04:20 Reason: xifnig optsy
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Old 2021-09-27, 15:15   #256
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Sardonicus View Post
I wonder of the person you asked heard "recommended" when you said "required." I imagine many doctors would recommend a booster for vaccinated patients who are immunocompromised and possibly those over 65 years old...
I don't remember exactly how I phrased my question. I was probably more like, "Will booster shots be needed?" His reply was probably a reflection of my age. 66 in 9 days. I've not heard anything about a timeline. I will just wait until I am contacted like I was before.
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Old 2021-09-27, 16:52   #257
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For the group 65+, the results are proven to be very beneficial; and it is approved by FDA and CDC. Not mandatory.
At our place, you could get the third shot for a week now, anytime - starting from Sep.20.
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Old 2021-09-28, 18:21   #258
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Batalov View Post
For the group 65+, the results are proven to be very beneficial; and it is approved by FDA and CDC. Not mandatory.
At our place, you could get the third shot for a week now, anytime - starting from Sep.20.
My original two shots were Moderna and I had no side effects either time. If I go to the same location for the booster, hopefully it will also be Moderna.

My next scheduled appointment is December 15. About that time last year, I was given flu and pneumonia shots. I hope this will be repeated.
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Old 2021-09-29, 16:01   #259
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I've seen it suggested that vaccination with different types vaccine may produce a better response. But don't take that as gospel. And I'd prefer a booster shot adjusted to match the delta variant.
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Old 2021-09-29, 17:05   #260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris2be8 View Post
And I'd prefer a booster shot adjusted to match the delta variant.
That is what Moderna has brewed up.
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Old 2021-09-29, 17:10   #261
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In Denmark they are offering 3rd booster shot to those with extra health conditions and to health care workers, and they announced it will be offered to everyone 65+, but there is no timeline for that yet.

Edit:
We are at 76.12% with at least 1 shot and 74.63% with both. But those percentages are out of the total population, and that first number have not moved much for 1-2 months, so I guess most of the remaining 24% are the children under 12 who will not get the vaccine at least not yet. A bit annoying they do not show percentages of the eligible people instead of the total population.

Last fiddled with by ATH on 2021-09-29 at 17:14
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Old 2021-09-30, 12:53   #262
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ATH View Post
In Denmark they are offering 3rd booster shot to those with extra health conditions and to health care workers, and they announced it will be offered to everyone 65+, but there is no timeline for that yet.

Edit:
We are at 76.12% with at least 1 shot and 74.63% with both. But those percentages are out of the total population, and that first number have not moved much for 1-2 months, so I guess most of the remaining 24% are the children under 12 who will not get the vaccine at least not yet. A bit annoying they do not show percentages of the eligible people instead of the total population.
Yes, a bit annoying, but unfortunately vaccine-ineligible can get the virus.

But let's see here. Percent ineligible (12 years of age or younger) is probably around 15%. Percent of total population unvaccinated is 100 - 76.12 = 23.88%. That would be 23.88% - 15% = 8.88% of the entire population being eligible and unvaccinated, so (8.88%)x100/(100 - 15) = 10.45% of the eligible population is unvaccinated, so 89.55% of those eligible have had at least one shot. Similarly, 87.76% of those eligible are fully vaccinated. (I know, carrying 4 sig figs is unwarranted since my guess of 15% could easily have a relative error of 7%, but I am confident the answers I got are fairly close to right.)

Those commendably high vaccination rates are, I am sure, making a huge difference.

Here in the US, only about 61% of the population has had at least one shot and only about 55% is fully vaccinated. In some States, the rates are much lower, and in some of those, hospitals are on "crisis standards of care" and in some areas the morgues are overflowing because of COVID. I am sure all that would have been prevented if we'd achieved vaccination rates anywhere close to what Denmark has.

"Annoyed" doesn't even begin to cover how I feel about that.

EDIT: Thanks to Uncwilly we know my 15% guess was wrong, the actual figure is 12.73%. Replacing 15% by 12.73% in the formulas reduces the 89.55% figure to a mere 87.22%, and the 87.76% to a mere 85.52%.

No figures for medical or other deferments in age-eligible. Perhaps they'd bring the ineligible back up to 15%

Last fiddled with by Dr Sardonicus on 2021-10-01 at 02:32
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Old 2021-09-30, 13:56   #263
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ATH View Post
so I guess most of the remaining 24% are the children under 12 who will not get the vaccine at least not yet. A bit annoying they do not show percentages of the eligible people instead of the total population.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Sardonicus View Post
Percent ineligible (12 years of age or younger) is probably around 15%.
According to Denmark's national statistics office. 12.73% of the population (as of Jan 2021) were 0-11 years old (under 12). Some folks might be medically deferred. That number is quite a bit harder to find.
The table at https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/01/28/960901166/how-is-the-covid-19-vaccination-campaign-going-in-your-state
has a footnote that includes: Children under 18 represent 24% of the total U.S. population and can catch and spread the virus.

Last fiddled with by Uncwilly on 2021-09-30 at 13:56
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Old 2021-10-03, 14:37   #264
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I went to get my flu shot yesterday. I asked about a COVID booster. They had it, and it's available on a walk-in basis, as long is you got vaccinated at least 6 months ago. You can even get the booster at the same time as you get a flu shot.

That is, provided you got the Pfizer 2-dose primary vaccine (which now has full FDA approval for use in people at least 12 years of age). The FDA granted Emergency Use Authorization (EUA) for a booster shot of the Pfizer vaccine, which if I understand correctly is the same as one dose of the 2-dose Pfizer primary vaccine.

But I got the Moderna 2-dose vaccine. There's no data on whether "mixing and matching" primary vaccines and boosters is safe or effective, so that's not approved. I will have to wait until a Moderna booster gets authorization. Apparently there are alternative versions in the works. One is, one dose of the 2-dose primary vaccine. Another is half a dose. Another is half a dose of a version aimed more specifically at the delta variant.
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