mersenneforum.org  

Go Back   mersenneforum.org > Extra Stuff > Hobbies > Chess > Other Chess Games

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2016-12-22, 03:02   #1
MooMoo2
 
MooMoo2's Avatar
 
Aug 2010

647 Posts
Default Engine-assisted game vs Stockfish, move 19 discussion

The only discussed move on the move 18 discussion thread was ...axb5. Stockfish played 19. Bf3, and the FEN is:
2rq1rk1/6bp/2npb3/1p1Npp2/8/2P2B2/1PN2PPP/R2Q1RK1 b - - 1 19

Game so far: 1.e4 c5 2. Nf3 e6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 Nc6 6. Ndb5 d6 7. Bf4 e5 8. Bg5 a6 9. Na3 b5 10. Bxf6 gxf6 11. Nd5 f5 12. c3 Bg7 13. Bd3 Be6 14. Nc2 O-O 15. O-O fxe4 16. Bxe4 Rc8 17. a4 f5 18. axb5 axb5 19. Bf3

Depth: 56 ply. Nodes searched: 2,187,604,159,550 (~2188 G)
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	position.png
Views:	104
Size:	13.7 KB
ID:	15407  
MooMoo2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2016-12-22, 06:00   #2
WMHalsdorf
 
WMHalsdorf's Avatar
 
Feb 2005
Bristol, CT

33·19 Posts
Default

Anybody have something better than the obvious 19...e4
WMHalsdorf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2016-12-22, 07:53   #3
unconnected
 
unconnected's Avatar
 
May 2009
Russia, Moscow

2,593 Posts
Default

Yes. 19... Kh8 and see what white will do.
unconnected is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2016-12-22, 16:02   #4
WMHalsdorf
 
WMHalsdorf's Avatar
 
Feb 2005
Bristol, CT

51310 Posts
Default

This is why 19...e4 looks good to me. (taking advantage of one of the flaws that most chess programs have.)

19...e4 20.Be2 b4 21.Ncxb 22. Nxb4 d5 23.Ra6 Qd7 24.Nc2 Rb8 25.Qc1 f4 26.Nd4 Bxd4 27.cxd4 Kh8 28.Qc6 Qxc6 29.Rxc6 Bf5 30.Re1 Rxb2
WMHalsdorf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2016-12-22, 19:15   #5
Till
 
Till's Avatar
 
"Tilman Neumann"
Jan 2016
Germany

2×227 Posts
Default

So far, 19...e4 is my best guess, too.

You probably meant 21. Ncxb Nxb4 ?
I could imagine that white plays 21. Ndxb
Till is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2016-12-22, 21:47   #6
richs
 
richs's Avatar
 
"Rich"
Aug 2002
Benicia, California

131110 Posts
Default

We have been following the line given by Mr. Barnes in post 5 of the move 16 thread:

17. a4 f5 18. axb5 axb5 19. Bf3 Kh8

Hopefully Mr. Barnes or dh1 (Denny?) is running Komodo now on our current position.
richs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2016-12-23, 05:38   #7
gd_barnes
 
gd_barnes's Avatar
 
May 2007
Kansas; USA

101·103 Posts
Default

I had missed that we skipped the vote on the last move. Beginning on Friday, I'll have Komodo take a good long look at this move.
gd_barnes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2016-12-24, 19:47   #8
gd_barnes
 
gd_barnes's Avatar
 
May 2007
Kansas; USA

28A316 Posts
Default

This game is now just running too fast for me to keep up with. I have been having a lot of problems getting Arena and Komdo to run properly the last couple of weeks. Now it has quit working completely. I even did a complete uninstall and reinstall with only temporary results. With the holidays I am not sure that I will be able to find the time to help with this move. I will keep trying but can give no guarantees. Sorry.

Last fiddled with by gd_barnes on 2016-12-24 at 19:48
gd_barnes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2016-12-24, 21:01   #9
gd_barnes
 
gd_barnes's Avatar
 
May 2007
Kansas; USA

101×103 Posts
Default

OK I finally got Arena-Komodo working again. It's definitely going back and forth between 19...e4 and Kh8 as the top moves at about 30 ply. I will let it think for about 24 hours. I will post results on Sunday along with some discussion. With the early posting of the poll I'd like to request that we wait to vote until after more discussion.
gd_barnes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2016-12-26, 06:26   #10
gd_barnes
 
gd_barnes's Avatar
 
May 2007
Kansas; USA

1040310 Posts
Default

Below is Komodo's analysis for the top 3 moves. Thinking lasted about 24 hours and 37 ply.

19...e4 20. Be2 Kh8 21. g3 Qg5 .00
19...Kh8 20. Ra6 e4 21. Be2 f4 .00
19...Qg5 20. Be2 Kh8 21. Kh1 e4 -.07

It reached .00 for the score more quickly for Kh8 than for e4 so it initially thought that Kh8 forces a draw slightly more quickly. But we are not looking for a draw. I think I like 19...e4 somewhat better because of the line that Halsdorf posted because it is more radical. Because it is a little more radical, I will have Komodo look at:

19...e4 20. Be2 b4

What we are looking for is a situation where Komodo continues to improve it's score of the position in our favor as the plies get deeper even if it initially looks like the line is not as good for us. I'll post that analysis sometime late Monday.
gd_barnes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2016-12-26, 06:57   #11
gd_barnes
 
gd_barnes's Avatar
 
May 2007
Kansas; USA

101×103 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WMHalsdorf View Post
This is why 19...e4 looks good to me. (taking advantage of one of the flaws that most chess programs have.)

19...e4 20.Be2 b4 21.Ncxb 22. Nxb4 d5 23.Ra6 Qd7 24.Nc2 Rb8 25.Qc1 f4 26.Nd4 Bxd4 27.cxd4 Kh8 28.Qc6 Qxc6 29.Rxc6 Bf5 30.Re1 Rxb2
After our move 20 in this line, Komodo likes this line for both sides up thru move 24 by white. After that it prefers 24...Kh8 25. Nd4 with an advantage of +0.4 to +0.55 for white. The reason is if we play 24...Rb8 as you state then 25. Nd4 Bf7 26. b4 f4 and white has an advantage of +0.75 to +0.85 with little apparent way for us to improve. The protected passed pawn for white looks ominous. For these reasons I do not think we can play 19...e4 20. Be2 b4.

I still somewhat prefer 19...e4 over 19...Kh8 but in response to 20. Be2 I think we should play 20...Kh8.

Part of the reason that I like 19...e4 now is that white is forced to Be2 right away...not a great place for his bishop. If we play 19...Kh8 then white can play 20. g3 and then if we play 20...e4 then white has a better place for his bishop with 21. Bg2.

Last fiddled with by gd_barnes on 2016-12-26 at 06:58
gd_barnes is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Engine-assisted game vs Stockfish, move 36 discussion. Drawn game? MooMoo2 Other Chess Games 10 2017-04-29 17:39
Engine-assisted game vs Stockfish, move 25 discussion MooMoo2 Other Chess Games 6 2017-02-14 00:30
Engine-assisted game vs Stockfish, move 20 discussion MooMoo2 Other Chess Games 6 2017-01-02 21:49
Engine-assisted game vs Stockfish, move 16 discussion MooMoo2 Other Chess Games 4 2016-12-10 16:50
Engine-assisted game vs Stockfish, move 15 discussion MooMoo2 Other Chess Games 5 2016-12-06 05:27

All times are UTC. The time now is 17:16.


Tue Jul 27 17:16:33 UTC 2021 up 4 days, 11:45, 0 users, load averages: 2.56, 2.78, 2.79

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum has received and complied with 0 (zero) government requests for information.

Permission is granted to copy, distribute and/or modify this document under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.2 or any later version published by the Free Software Foundation.
A copy of the license is included in the FAQ.