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Old 2021-02-17, 23:57   #67
The Carnivore
 
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Originally Posted by Dr Sardonicus View Post
I would quail at doing my laundry in a tub (my back hurts just thinking about that), but there are plenty of other things, like yard work, for which I am happy to use my muscles. And am glad to be able to. Driving significant distances to a gym and back, to exercise without accomplishing anything useful, is sheer decadence.
Not everything in life needs to be useful. Some people find joy in maximizing their deadlift or their performance on the elliptical. Others find joy in flying to a nearby airport, grabbing a burger, and then flying back:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/$100_hamburger

Who are you or I to question people's hobbies or lifestyles? As long as those pilots aren't buzzing people's homes, interfering with other aircraft, or entering restricted airspace, they should be free to do whatever they want in the skies.

Last fiddled with by The Carnivore on 2021-02-17 at 23:58 Reason: Link
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Old 2021-02-18, 00:58   #68
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Originally Posted by The Carnivore View Post
Who are you or I to question people's hobbies or lifestyles? As long as those pilots aren't buzzing people's homes, interfering with other aircraft, or entering restricted airspace, they should be free to do whatever they want in the skies.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons#Examples
Quote:
More general examples (some alluded to by Hardin) of potential and actual tragedies include:
  • Clearing rainforest for agriculture in southern Mexico.
  • Planet Earth ecology
  • Uncontrolled human population growth leading to overpopulation.
  • Atmosphere, through the release of pollution that leads to ozone depletion, global warming, ocean acidification (by way of increased atmospheric CO2 being absorbed by the sea), and particulate pollution
  • Light pollution – with the loss of the night sky for research and cultural significance, affected human, flora and fauna health, nuisance, trespass and the loss of enjoyment or function of private property.
  • Water – Water pollution, water crisis of over-extraction of groundwater and wasting water due to overirrigation
  • Forests – Frontier logging of old growth forest and slash and burn
  • Energy resources and climate – Environmental residue of mining and drilling, Burning of fossil fuels and consequential global warming
It is an established principal that people's actions wrt the environment can be regulated. This was written into law in the USA in the 1880's.
Quote:
Originally Posted by https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/384/224
An 1886 Act (24 Stat. 329) made it unlawful to empty 'any ballast, stone, slate, gravel, earth, slack, rubbish, wreck, filth, slabs, edgings, sawdust, slag, or cinders, or other refuse or mill-waste of any kind, into New York Harbor'—which plainly includes valuable pre-discharge material.
And in 1610 in England the court sided with a plaintiff regarding the fouling of the atmosphere by another.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aldred%27s_Case
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Old 2021-02-18, 02:30   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Carnivore View Post
Who are you or I to question people's hobbies or lifestyles? As long as those pilots aren't buzzing people's homes, interfering with other aircraft, or entering restricted airspace, they should be free to do whatever they want in the skies.
On March 6, 1890, a Shakespeare enthusiast released 60 European Starlings into New York's Central Park. He wasn't directly harming anyone. Then.
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Old 2021-02-18, 03:43   #70
The Carnivore
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Sardonicus View Post
Driving significant distances to a gym and back, to exercise without accomplishing anything useful, is sheer decadence.
Quote:
It is an established principal that people's actions wrt the environment can be regulated.
That reasoning can be used to ban nearly all recreation and any non-essential activities that aren't considered useful. Vacations to other states and countries? Those aren't useful, so ban them. And neither are trips to movie theaters, concerts, sporting events, non-essential businesses, etc. Walking there instead of driving is no excuse, as there is a significant amount of fossil fuels involved in food production:
https://www.businessinsider.com/walk...riving-2013-11
We actually implemented most of those restrictions last year, and that dropped 2020's oil consumption by less than 10%:
https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=46596

So what's next? Banning heating and just telling everyone to wear jackets when their home indoor temperature is 50 degrees F?Rationing food and fuel? Outlawing single-family homes since they're not as efficient as dense apartments? Where do we draw the line, and is that a world worth living in?
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Old 2021-02-18, 05:13   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Carnivore View Post
So what's next? Banning heating and just telling everyone to wear jackets when their home indoor temperature is 50 degrees F?Rationing food and fuel? Outlawing single-family homes since they're not as efficient as dense apartments? Where do we draw the line, and is that a world worth living in?
You appear unable to differentiate between extravagance and reasonableness.
Part of the reason there was not a bigger drop in usage was because of overhead usage. If 20% of the staff is in a building, you still have to heat and cool it. Same thing for restaurants, 25% customers means the walk-in refrigerator is still running. Many places did not go to the effort to override programmed HVAC systems. How many empty churches, gyms, pubs, and schools made that change? Subway cars with 10% occupancy needs nearly the same power to run (as most of the mass is the train, not people), same for busses. There was a decrease in car/vanpools. There was an increase in on-line ordering, causing more delivery pollution.
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Old 2021-02-18, 06:04   #72
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Originally Posted by The Carnivore View Post
Others find joy in flying to a nearby airport, grabbing a burger, and then flying back:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/$100_hamburger
Meh.

The real fun is over here: https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/f...tas/index.html

Quote:
Amid global restrictions, travelers have been daydreaming not only about far-flung destinations, but the flying experience itself -- from the thrill of the take-off to the unmatched views of the Earth from the cabin window.

That's where "flights to nowhere" come in -- air travel that takes place purely for the purpose of the journey, not the destination.

Proving how popular these now are, a sightseeing flight to nowhere offered by Qantas sold out within 10 minutes, according to the airline, with passengers eager to take to the skies at at time when Australia has grounded almost all international flights paying premium prices.

"It's probably the fastest selling flight in Qantas history," the airline's CEO, Alan Joyce, said in a statement.

"People clearly miss travel and the experience of flying. If the demand is there, we'll definitely look at doing more of these scenic flights while we all wait for borders to open."
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Old 2021-02-18, 14:41   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Carnivore View Post
That reasoning can be used...
This is a straw man. Who actually is proposing to ban all recreation or "non-essential" activities? Nobody I know of.

And it's rich, coming from someone who presumes to declare people useless, or unworthy of receiving the COVID vaccine - people with existing health problems likely made bad decisions. Old people aren't going to live long anyway. Screw 'em. Just hand the vaccine out at random.
Quote:
So what's next? Banning heating and just telling everyone to wear jackets when their home indoor temperature is 50 degrees F?
The Great State of Texas has already got that covered. In the name of doing things on the cheap, and avoiding the anathema of federal regulation, millions of Texans are without power, shivering in their own homes. And now, because of the power outages, assisted by burst water mains, water pressure has dropped so low in a number of municipalities that many Texans are under boil orders. Including many who don't have power and can't even heat their homes.

Former governor Rick Perry says most Texans would accept being without power for even longer to "keep the federal government out of their business." Interesting, that - it implies that Texas politicians don't feel obligated to provide their own citizens with reliable electric power.

Meanwhile, the 10% of Texas that isn't in the Electric Reliability Council of Texas (ERCOT) is not having power outages. The lights and heat are on in El Paso, which is tied to the Western Interconnect rather than ERCOT. After the power outages due to the cold blast of February 2011, and the recommendations from the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission, El Paso Electric decided to spend the money required to really winterize their power system. If the R's of Texas aren't willing to do what Mother Nature is telling them they have to do to insure reliable electric power, I suggest they simply change the name ERCOT to EUCOT.

EDIT: News reports are now saying that fewer than half a million Texans are without electrical power.

Last fiddled with by Dr Sardonicus on 2021-02-18 at 16:05 Reason: As indicated
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Old 2021-02-18, 14:45   #74
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I? D? I? of Texas

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Old 2021-02-18, 23:32   #75
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Originally Posted by Xyzzy View Post
I? D? I? of Texas

Senator Ted Cruz has the answer: Go to Cancun!
Quote:
In a statement on Thursday, the Republican senator said he was returning to Texas. He accompanied his family to Mexico a day earlier, he said, only after his daughters asked to go on a trip with friends, given that school was canceled for the week.

"Wanting to be a good dad, I flew down with them last night and am flying back this afternoon," Cruz wrote.
All Texans wanting to thaw out in Cancun until the weather moderates in Texas, need only apply to Senator Cruz's office for travel and hotel vouchers!
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Old 2021-02-19, 06:43   #76
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Like Isoroku Yamamoto would say, the giant right now is waking up... Or, as we say in our language, any kick in the butt is a step ahead.
Isn't Texas one of the most sunny places in the world? (it appears so from the movies ).

This was maybe the kick in the back that will make everybody install solar panels. Yeah, well, you need to clean them after snow and sandstorms, but in the same time they'll reduce your dependency of the central supply, make you more independent, and flexible. What doesn't kill you, makes you stronger.

Last fiddled with by LaurV on 2021-02-19 at 06:45
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Old 2021-02-19, 18:43   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LaurV View Post
...This was maybe the kick in the back that will make everybody install solar panels. Yeah, well, you need to clean them after snow and sandstorms, but in the same time they'll reduce your dependency of the central supply, make you more independent, and flexible. What doesn't kill you, makes you stronger.
IMO, solar and wind should be used as a supplemental source and not a primary one. I believe this was the original intent. I read a short time ago that Texas has partially restored their power-grid, but not completely. Perhaps, the days of them running an independent and deregulated power system will soon pass. It always seems to require a body-count to make big business and governments sit up and take notice. I do not see Uncle Sam allowing them to return to business as usual. There is much work ahead for them.
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