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Old 2015-03-05, 18:23   #56
chalsall
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"Chris Halsall"
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Rose View Post
Do you have a cupola on your house?
LOL... Not a cupola, but the main two floors are entirely open, with a huge shutter on the second floor we can open to generate convection flow. And with regards to thermal mass... Let's just say the place is entirely concrete and steel -- I have no idea how many tonnes of each, but LOTs! And we're thermally tied into the coral-stone. Lastly, I would guess over 95% of the exterior surfaces (other than windows) are white or light grey.

But... My interest in LiBr A/C is not so much for the residential users (at least initially), but for commercial (including hotels). Such entities would likely have the areas for solar panels and radiators, and the volumes for equipment and tanks for the chemical solutions.

Oh, and I forgot to mention before -- with LiBr systems you can "store the cold" by storing the concentrated solution at ambient temperature. Generate and use during the day, use when the sun goes down.

I'm convinced there's a business opportunity here, but I have no where near the chemical / thermal dynamic engineering training required. I hope / wish that someone(s) like Musk or Gates et al would get behind this in a serious way.

Last fiddled with by chalsall on 2015-03-05 at 18:27 Reason: s/entities would like have/entities would likely have/
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Old 2015-03-05, 18:31   #57
pinhodecarlos
 
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Originally Posted by chalsall View Post
Yeah, I know. Absorption cooling pre-dates compression!

Why I am interested in this is that those who live near the equator often spend a huge amount of energy for air conditioning -- usually carbon-based electricity.

If a safe, reliable and cost effective solar driven system could be achieved, it could cut fuel consumption considerably. After all, most cooling is needed during the day, when the sun is shining! And, it's trivial to "store cold".

Unfortunately ammonia is considered dangerous and thus tends not to be used in larger systems (unless very carefully and constantly managed by skilled operators). Separately the LiBr systems don't work at the temperatures producible by passive solar panels (plus the LiBr solution needs to be periodically tested for contamination).

But I know research is continuing being done on this, and commercial and residential sized LiBr units are on the market now (although not solar driven).
The problem of using ammonia is the sub-cooling temperatures and its distribution through the pipes.
Anyway, I am an Energy Consultant on one of the biggest companies in the UK so I can help you if you want.
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Old 2015-03-05, 21:35   #58
TheMawn
 
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Solar-powered refrigeration is a fantastic notion. Soon we'll have moisture farmers just like in Star Wars.
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Old 2015-03-05, 21:38   #59
chalsall
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Originally Posted by pinhodecarlos View Post
Anyway, I am an Energy Consultant on one of the biggest companies in the UK so I can help you if you want.
I am interested in what you have to say.
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Old 2015-03-05, 21:39   #60
chalsall
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Soon we'll have moisture farmers just like in Star Wars.
And Dune.
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Old 2015-03-05, 23:25   #61
wombatman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMawn View Post
Solar-powered refrigeration is a fantastic notion. Soon we'll have moisture farmers just like in Star Wars.
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/innova...950399/?no-ist

Ahem.
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Old 2015-03-06, 07:06   #62
kladner
 
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Great story!
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Old 2015-03-09, 00:53   #63
Madpoo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chalsall View Post
...And we're thermally tied into the coral-stone...
That reminds me... it may be expensive to setup, but I wonder if a geothermal heat pump would be feasible in your area.

I guess the thing would be the setup cost... drilling down however far and then the plumbing involved (or trenching a larger area with coils of tubing...whichever).
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Old 2015-03-09, 18:30   #64
chalsall
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Originally Posted by Madpoo View Post
That reminds me... it may be expensive to setup, but I wonder if a geothermal heat pump would be feasible in your area. I guess the thing would be the setup cost... drilling down however far and then the plumbing involved (or trenching a larger area with coils of tubing...whichever).
Thanks. You jogged a memory of (superficial) research I did many years ago.

The issue with geothermal heat pumps is, as you say, the costs (including energy) for the excavation and/or drilling, and the plumbing. In reality the only reason our house is tied into the coral-stone is we wanted to lay our foundation on it (rather than soil) so the house wouldn't float.

In a related topic, I found the idea of Ocean thermal energy conversion very interesting. While possibly viable, it requires a large vertical delta into the ocean, which Barbados doesn't enjoy.

Physics is fun!!!
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Old 2015-04-04, 07:41   #65
LaurV
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I'm no chemist, but nickel oxide is green while copper sulphate is blue, so I imagine it's nickel oxide that you're seeing and not copper sulphate.
Hey, anyone remember this discussion? This is for the "unhappy me" thread, but I try to keep my "cooling" stuff "cool", all in a place.

I found out the mystery! The green stuff is an iron salt. The freaking "supremacy" CPU block from EKWB has an iron plate inside, about 16 square centimeters, and half millimeter thick (a TON if iron!) with a cut in the middle; This is used as a diaphragm (or noozle? donno which English word is more suitable) to spread the water uniformly on the fins/wings of the cooler block (massive copper).
[edit: and to create the "depressurization" when the water leaves the hose and goes into the block, which is assumed to help decreasing the temperature - and which, in fact, is working, see below].

So much for "single metal water circuit!". Good job EKWB! Boneheads!

Funny part is that the plate in cause is considered "consumable": as is shown in this picture, they have an "upgrade kit" which is actually selling with two of those (only one is needed, one is spare part). So, it was meant for it to produce a lot of shit in my water to stuck the cooler fins.... Or does it have anything to do with protection of the copper? (like the same idea why zinc is added to iron plates used to cover the roofs?).

Anyhow.... because my water circuit was "slowing down" (and consequently the temperatures raising - also the HOT April just came, it seems), I opened the water block and cleaned it inside with a toothbrush and "toilet duck" (from supermarket, but it is mainly hydrochloric acid) and then with a lot of soap. Now it is very shiny!

Imagine my face when I found an iron plate inside, I could not be more astonished if I would find a NSA transmitter with a microphone in my bathroom!

The iron band was "etched out" here and there, looking like a very-very old iron coin. I made some experiments with both "with" and "without" it, after cleaning it. The temperatures are about 3 degrees Celsius lower without it, and about 11 degrees Celsius lower with it (no joke), comparing with the initial condition (which was "with it", but before cleaning the green/black stuff in between the fins).

For now I let it "in", it helps a lot by spreading that water. But I must see how I can make one from nickel or copper. I have some idea where to get the material from, but it will take some time to make it. Meantime, I may stop the whole "mill" during Songkran (so, no much TF either, we'll have holiday till 18th, we plan to go somewhere around). We'll see...

Last fiddled with by LaurV on 2015-04-04 at 07:54
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Old 2015-04-04, 12:35   #66
Mark Rose
 
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Interesting! I can't believe they actually used iron like that.

I would probably use acrylic for the replacement spreader instead of metal.
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