Member Ranking.

jwaltos · 2015-03-12, 02:23

As a possible consideration, certain members are expert in their respective fields. When they weigh in with a response or a post would it be possible to associate a level and type of expertise they bring to bear on a question? This could be in the form of a gif or similar visual.
For example, looking at the recent "overclocking" thread, if someone had a solid rating in terms of good advice then this should be immediately visible to those not conversant with the inner workings of this forum.

retina · 2015-03-12, 09:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwaltos

As a possible consideration, certain members are expert in their respective fields. When they weigh in with a response or a post would it be possible to associate a level and type of expertise they bring to bear on a question? This could be in the form of a gif or similar visual.
For example, looking at the recent "overclocking" thread, if someone had a solid rating in terms of good advice then this should be immediately visible to those not conversant with the inner workings of this forum.

Who makes the judgement about who are the experts? How many different fields and categories should we have? Perhaps each member is an expert in their particular field and therefore everyone qualifies? What if an expert responds to something that is not their field? What if someone is an expert in more than one thing? What if there are two or more experts responding to the same thing and they disagree with each other? What if the expert is drunk, or playing a joke, or misreads the question and then answers wrongly?

xilman · 2015-03-12, 09:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by retina

Who makes the judgement about who are the experts? How many different fields and categories should we have? Perhaps each member is an expert in their particular field and therefore everyone qualifies? What if an expert responds to something that is not their field? What if someone is an expert in more than one thing? What if there are two or more experts responding to the same thing and they disagree with each other? What if the expert is drunk, or playing a joke, or misreads the question and then answers wrongly?

All good reasons why I am not in favour of the proposal.

Another reason, and another good one IMAO, is that everyone should learn how to evaluate evidence so that they can make a reasoned judgement as to how much to trust a particular person or statement. Then apply "trust but verify" in the words of the late POTUS.

retina · 2015-03-12, 13:01

Just for the record, if this ever comes to fruition then I will register myself as the local ~~idiot~~ expert of sharks with frickin' laser beams attached to their heads. I got dibs, all you others are now too late.

jwaltos · 2015-03-12, 14:28

What I am asking to be considered is a mechanism to develop a relative ranking according to what has been posted akin to a peer review or ELO rating. If what has been posted has been useful then members of the forum could submit a feedback rating as in `useful`, `useless` or `not even wrong.`

Obviously, subjective assessments are just that, subjective. To sabotage or subvert a positive intent is just not right and should never be condoned. My rationale is simple efficiency. Depending upon context, my expectation would be that the opinion of a well-regarded poster would be at least equivalent to that of an unknown poster. I would review both but my initial bias would be for established quality and consistency. When delving through years of archived posts for specific information, any shortcuts to speed the process always helps.

Regarding reasoned judgement, I believe every word Bonzo said. Secondly, swimming with the sharks (as in playing a high stakes poker game) where if you don't know your own weaknesses then you can bet your bottom that everyone else will. To develop that kind of self-awareness as well as the ability to evaluate others accordingly requires a special skill set which not everyone has. Thank you for taking the time to consider the merits of this proposal.

TheMawn · 2015-03-13, 07:37

I have never been impressed with the ranking systems that I've seen on other forums. These things tend to all be based on just a raw number of posts which favours quantity over quality. Some sites plug into Facebook for comment functions (like the Escapist; just try to spend as little time there as possible, watch the videos and then leave) and almost everybody there is a "Top Commentor" because the threshold for being a "Top Commentor" was very poorly designed for the long term. (EDIT: Not to mention I can't think of a reason why anyone would give a single sh*t whether or not someone is a "Top Commentor" like the number of times they have posted their opinion is worth anything)

The quick fix I've seen is to continually add tiers so that nobody maxes out the rank but that just leaves you with Platinum 5 Ultra Diamond Mega Experts and other increasingly awesome rank names which start to be completely meaningless. Would you take advice from a guy with Rank 3 out of 15? Well, you should, because Rank 3 was, once upon a time, the highest you could be, but they kept adding more because there were too many Rank 3's.

The fix to that is to add a decaying rank so that if you stop giving useful advice for a while you're reduced to just a Gold 4 Super Expert but this is already becoming unnecessarily complicated. Worse still is that someone who is knowledgeable but has just entered the scene holds no sway because he is just a puny Bronze User.

Then there's the question of implementation. Giving ratings to comments is silly because everything will get cluttered with +1 and -1 symbols making us look more and more like YouTube comments (which would be a bad thing).

So, if this wasn't obvious, my vote on this is No. It just adds a competitive aspect to something that requires no competitive element. The Mersenne Forum is not a large enough community that you have 12-year-olds running around spamming nonsense to try to level up their internet penises, so there isn't much cause for concern in terms of the quality of responses.

In the overclocking thread you referenced, it took no time at all for two contrasting opinions to be made by multiple members, each with valuable and constructive supporting arguments. Instead of relying on someone's internet points to blindly take advice, it is worthwhile to take the time to understand the matter and ask additional questions as needed.

xilman · 2015-03-13, 13:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMawn

Instead of relying on someone's internet points to blindly take advice, it is worthwhile to take the time to understand the matter and ask additional questions as needed.

My view exactly.

The one place I've seen where user rankings appear to work moderately well is PerlMonks. Those who wish to study the topic in greater depth could do worse than hanging out there for a while.

Disclaimer: my active participation on PerlMonks ceased quite a long time ago. Things may have changed significantly since then.

jwaltos · 2015-03-13, 15:34

Thanks for the reviews. This was a bad idea.
I used a BBS or two a long time ago and things have evolved since for many reasons. As a precursor to that I had also used morse code in several languages and could pick out exactly who and where you were or determine if you were an imposter and tag you accordingly. These days a baby with a PlaySkool laptop is like a can opener looking for shiny colourful cans to open - and some are very adept.
I did not expect an American Idol/Facebook/Vanity press scenario with narcissists basking in reflective glory. Rather, something different, incisive, evolutionary that would serve to future-proof the utility of the site. The "Soap Box" gives an indicator of some of the "Alice in Wonderland" technological society we live in predicated on mathematical sophistication (pun noted?).
Markers can be both a deterrent and an aid. Again, asked and answered. Punto. -spanish sense ;)

jwaltos · 2015-03-13, 17:01

.

2015-03-12, 02:23	#1
jwaltos Apr 2012 Oh oh. 463 Posts	Member Ranking. As a possible consideration, certain members are expert in their respective fields. When they weigh in with a response or a post would it be possible to associate a level and type of expertise they bring to bear on a question? This could be in the form of a gif or similar visual. For example, looking at the recent "overclocking" thread, if someone had a solid rating in terms of good advice then this should be immediately visible to those not conversant with the inner workings of this forum. Last fiddled with by jwaltos on 2015-03-12 at 02:25

2015-03-12, 14:28	#5
jwaltos Apr 2012 Oh oh. 463 Posts	What I am asking to be considered is a mechanism to develop a relative ranking according to what has been posted akin to a peer review or ELO rating. If what has been posted has been useful then members of the forum could submit a feedback rating as in `useful`, `useless` or `not even wrong.` Obviously, subjective assessments are just that, subjective. To sabotage or subvert a positive intent is just not right and should never be condoned. My rationale is simple efficiency. Depending upon context, my expectation would be that the opinion of a well-regarded poster would be at least equivalent to that of an unknown poster. I would review both but my initial bias would be for established quality and consistency. When delving through years of archived posts for specific information, any shortcuts to speed the process always helps. Regarding reasoned judgement, I believe every word Bonzo said. Secondly, swimming with the sharks (as in playing a high stakes poker game) where if you don't know your own weaknesses then you can bet your bottom that everyone else will. To develop that kind of self-awareness as well as the ability to evaluate others accordingly requires a special skill set which not everyone has. Thank you for taking the time to consider the merits of this proposal. Last fiddled with by jwaltos on 2015-03-12 at 14:43 Reason: Addenda

2015-03-13, 07:37	#6
TheMawn May 2013 East. Always East. 6BF₁₆ Posts	I have never been impressed with the ranking systems that I've seen on other forums. These things tend to all be based on just a raw number of posts which favours quantity over quality. Some sites plug into Facebook for comment functions (like the Escapist; just try to spend as little time there as possible, watch the videos and then leave) and almost everybody there is a "Top Commentor" because the threshold for being a "Top Commentor" was very poorly designed for the long term. (EDIT: Not to mention I can't think of a reason why anyone would give a single sht whether or not someone is a "Top Commentor" like the number of times they have posted their opinion is worth anything) The quick fix I've seen is to continually add tiers so that nobody maxes out the rank but that just leaves you with Platinum 5 Ultra Diamond Mega Experts and other increasingly awesome rank names which start to be completely meaningless. Would you take advice from a guy with Rank 3 out of 15? Well, you should, because Rank 3 was, once upon a time, the highest you could be, but they kept adding more because there were too many Rank 3's. The fix to that is to add a decaying rank so that if you stop giving useful advice for a while you're reduced to just a Gold 4 Super Expert but this is already becoming unnecessarily complicated. Worse still is that someone who is knowledgeable but has just entered the scene holds no sway because he is just a puny Bronze User. Then there's the question of implementation. Giving ratings to comments is silly because everything will get cluttered with +1 and -1 symbols making us look more and more like YouTube comments (which would be a bad thing). So, if this wasn't obvious, my vote on this is No. It just adds a competitive aspect to something that requires no competitive element. The Mersenne Forum is not a large enough community that you have 12-year-olds running around spamming nonsense to try to level up their internet penises, so there isn't much cause for concern in terms of the quality of responses. In the overclocking thread you referenced, it took no time at all for two contrasting opinions to be made by multiple members, each with valuable and constructive supporting arguments. Instead of relying on someone's internet points to blindly take advice, it is worthwhile to take the time to understand the matter and ask additional questions as needed. Last fiddled with by TheMawn on 2015-03-13 at 07:38*

2015-03-13, 17:01	#9
jwaltos Apr 2012 Oh oh. 717₈ Posts	. Last fiddled with by jwaltos on 2015-03-13 at 17:05

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2015-03-12, 13:01	#4
retina Undefined "The unspeakable one" Jun 2006 My evil lair 23×283 Posts	Just for the record, if this ever comes to fruition then I will register myself as the local ~~idiot~~ expert of sharks with frickin' laser beams attached to their heads. I got dibs, all you others are now too late.

2015-03-13, 15:34	#8
jwaltos Apr 2012 Oh oh. 111001111₂ Posts	Thanks for the reviews. This was a bad idea. I used a BBS or two a long time ago and things have evolved since for many reasons. As a precursor to that I had also used morse code in several languages and could pick out exactly who and where you were or determine if you were an imposter and tag you accordingly. These days a baby with a PlaySkool laptop is like a can opener looking for shiny colourful cans to open - and some are very adept. I did not expect an American Idol/Facebook/Vanity press scenario with narcissists basking in reflective glory. Rather, something different, incisive, evolutionary that would serve to future-proof the utility of the site. The "Soap Box" gives an indicator of some of the "Alice in Wonderland" technological society we live in predicated on mathematical sophistication (pun noted?). Markers can be both a deterrent and an aid. Again, asked and answered. Punto. -spanish sense ;)