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Old 2016-08-01, 01:02   #45
ewmayer
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Quick spot-check of your Teutschkenntnisse!

(BTW, if you wonder how 'Teutonic' and 'Deutsch' are linked, think of the rough evolutionary sequence Teutonisch -> Teutsch -> Deutsch.)

This is a word I ran across in forwarding an article about the recent mass shooting in a German shopping mall to an English-speaking friend, along with a suggestion to Google-translate it. When I followed my own advice I saw the word in question was one which apparently baffled GT's machine intelligence, but was the kind a human with halfway-decent German skills should be able to figure out, making use of the aforementioned story context:

amoklage
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Old 2016-08-01, 01:12   #46
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Originally Posted by ewmayer View Post
Quick spot-check of your Teutschkenntnisse!

(BTW, if you wonder how 'Teutonic' and 'Deutsch' are linked, think of the rough evolutionary sequence Teutonisch -> Teutsch -> Deutsch.)

This is a word I ran across in forwarding an article about the recent mass shooting in a German shopping mall to an English-speaking friend, along with a suggestion to Google-translate it. When I followed my own advice I saw the word in question was one which apparently baffled GT's machine intelligence, but was the kind a human with halfway-decent German skills should be able to figure out, making use of the aforementioned story context:

amoklage
I fail. Amok is running around murderously like a spontaneous madman. "age" sounds like an adjective ending, but it been so long since I've worked on German lessons that I'm just feeling it out in English as in "breakage."
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Old 2016-08-01, 01:41   #47
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Originally Posted by only_human View Post
My feelings are that they are exceptionally good on training word lists.
Yes, that was my (negative) impression too, at the first lessons. As you advance with the courses, they have plenty of expressions, phrases, etc. The trouble there is that so many people make their own (shitty) courses. But the "official" stuff is good, they put a lot of work and "intelligence" there. A thing I don't especially like at memrise is that they give you a badge for how much time you spent on a course, as long as the course is not finished. So, you are encouraged to "never finish the course". Because when you finish a course, the counter of the days starts again from zero. Which is a bit of silly... Or at least, for a "credit whore" like me, hehe...
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Old 2016-08-01, 22:31   #48
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Originally Posted by ewmayer View Post
BTW, if you wonder how 'Teutonic' and 'Deutsch' are linked, think of the rough evolutionary sequence Teutonisch -> Teutsch -> Deutsch.
Background information for those interested:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grimm%27s_law
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Old 2016-08-01, 22:42   #49
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in French, 'Teutons' are german people as well as ' Fritz' and ' schleu'. Lets say that those are not appropriate but migh be still used. the last two were used around the second world war. also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teutons
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The Teutons (Latin: Teutones, Teutoni) were a Germanic tribe mentioned by Greek and Roman authors, notably Strabo and Marcus Velleius Paterculus. According to a map by Ptolemy, they originally lived in Jutland, which is in agreement with Pomponius Mela, who placed them in Scandinavia (Codanonia),[citation needed] although there was disagreement by these scholars whether or not they were related to the Celts.[1] Rather than relating directly to this tribe, the broad term, Teutonic peoples or Teuton in particular, is used now to identify members of a people speaking languages of the Germanic branch of the Indo-European language family.

Last fiddled with by firejuggler on 2016-08-01 at 22:45
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Old 2016-08-02, 00:54   #50
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Originally Posted by only_human View Post
I fail. Amok is running around murderously like a spontaneous madman. "age" sounds like an adjective ending, but it been so long since I've worked on German lessons that I'm just feeling it out in English as in "breakage."
You're on the right track. Possibly confusing (to man or machine, the relative degree dependent on the algorithm employed by each) is that 'klage' (complaint, lamentation) is also embedded in this compound noun. But parsing it the same way as 'amokläufer' (literally 'amok-runner', as in berserker) is correct - so now you got [amok + Lage]. Back to you!

@CRG: Thanks for the link, very interesting, though rather wonky for us non-professional-linguists.
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Old 2016-08-05, 18:16   #51
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Originally Posted by ewmayer View Post
You're on the right track. Possibly confusing (to man or machine, the relative degree dependent on the algorithm employed by each) is that 'klage' (complaint, lamentation) is also embedded in this compound noun. But parsing it the same way as 'amokläufer' (literally 'amok-runner', as in berserker) is correct - so now you got [amok + Lage]. Back to you!
Ok I'm going to go with Lage being a noun "situation." I cheated and got all googly. I found Lage on this page coincidentally: Word Formation in German

I say coincidentally because Lage is in some of the sentences on that page as a noun but is not in any word-building discussed there. I've ended up on these Dartmoth German Studies Department pages before and I like them. They are non fussy lightweight formatted pages with good condensed information. Also the web page has a Mark Twain quote on German:
Quote:
As Mark Twain wrote in his Notebooks & Journals, "The German language is a dozen fragments of words flung into an octagonal cylinder - take a good look at them before you begin to turn the machine, for you will never see them in their simplicity again - never never any more. Turn! - up spring your fragmental elements with Ver's & Be's & Ge's & Er's & lein's & chen's & ung's & heit's & keit's & zu's & a thousand other flashing and blazing prefixes, affixes & interjections broidered on them or hung to them. - Turn & turn! The combinations will be infinite, & bewilderingly enchanting & magnificent - but these, also, like the original fragments you shall see but once, then lose them forever. The patterns in this linguistic kaleidoscope are never repeated."
The quote that I'd previously seen from him is on verbs especially the impact of a verb occurring late in a sentence. This might be this quote that I've seen previously; I'm not sure now. I've looked around just now and he'd actually said a lot about German.
Quote:
An average sentence, in a German newspaper, is a sublime and impressive curiosity; it occupies a quarter of a column; it contains all the ten parts of speech — not in regular order, but mixed; it is built mainly of compound words constructed by the writer on the spot, and not to be found in any dictionary — six or seven words compacted into one, without joint or seam — that is, without hyphens; it treats of fourteen or fifteen different subjects, each inclosed in a parenthesis of its own, with here and there extra parentheses which reinclose three or four of the minor parentheses, making pens within pens: finally, all the parentheses and reparentheses are massed together between a couple of king-parentheses, one of which is placed in the first line of the majestic sentence and the other in the middle of the last line of it — after which comes the VERB, and you find out for the first time what the man has been talking about; and after the verb — merely by way of ornament, as far as I can make out — the writer shovels in“haben sind gewesen gehabt haben geworden sein,” or words to that effect, and the monument is finished.
So anyway, the word amoklage you've presented me could be Amok-situation with a noun-ness even though the word is not capitalised. I'm going with a sort of Amokness meaning but with clever superimposed klage to also alude to the lamentation that you mentioned. I get that that is not actually part of the built word but having it there as an allusion is clever if wordsmiths actually do that in the German language.

Last fiddled with by only_human on 2016-08-05 at 18:27 Reason: s/I/I'm/ twice!
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Old 2016-08-06, 08:05   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by only_human View Post
So anyway, the word amoklage you've presented me could be Amok-situation with a noun-ness even though the word is not capitalised.
My bad - should have capitalized to make clear noun-ness. And yes, 'state of amokness/chaos/confusion/disorder.'
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Old 2016-08-06, 19:13   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ewmayer View Post
My bad - should have capitalized to make clear noun-ness. And yes, 'state of amokness/chaos/confusion/disorder.'
https://plus.google.com/+AndresSoolo/posts/Qbyqpm1eoES
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"Bei uns wird Sicherheit groß geschrieben."
"Kein Wunder - es ist ja auch ein Substantiv."
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"With us security is capitalized."
"No wonder - it's also a noun."
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Old 2016-08-14, 10:15   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LaurV View Post
That is a very good observation/advice which I must remember when my German will be advanced enough to be able to handle the reverse tree. Up to now, I didn't think to it, except that I was waiting for "Ro for En speakers" and "En for Th speakers" courses to get out of incubator, hoping that both of them can help me improve my "reverse", hehe. But i didn't think to go "En for German speakers". I will try sooner or later.
/.../
The Romanian for English speakers has an estimated launch date of Aug 14th; I just checked and it still is in the incubator instead of beta but today is the scheduled day so maybe it will go to beta test today.

They will love you if you write comments there. You will see all of the questions will be in English; very few people will be know much about Romanian so anything you say about it will be like gold. And everyone will be grousing about how their sentences weren't accepted so there will be tons of English discussion about every Romanian sentence. I don't think you will benefit much with your extremely high English fluency level but you might like seeing discussions that are tightly focused on a sentence. It adds a level of clarity when you know exactly what the intended topic is.

I wish I had tried the reverse trees and other tree ideas earlier. I'm enjoying the French from Spanish tree very much. I'm getting a better understanding of Spanish from all the Spanish comments while learning French too; and when comments go off topic it's still good Spanish info for me to learn. The best part is I have completely removed any temptation to talk about the English meaning of sentences; in earlier Duolingo language study I wasted too much of my time on that.

Greek is scheduled go to beta test on the 16th. I look forward to that.
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Old 2016-08-21, 05:10   #55
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My high school phased out Latin classes a few years before I attended there. It was an upscale neighborhood before the magnet schools concept that also offered enriched learning resources but even so Latin was gone, baby, gone.

I get a kick out of eclectic language fun that I stumble across (ahem online - not during bar crawls) and thus voila:
A Latin Language Version of Adele's "Hello" by Keith Massey, PhD
http://youtu.be/oPFmY5ur8oA

He has a website with Latin language resources:
http://www.keithmassey.com/latin.html
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