Mystery Economic Theater 2016 - Page 2

ewmayer · 2016-02-02, 10:17

Too poor to retire and too young to die - Los Angeles Times

Latter-day John Steinbeck material, brought to you by the wonders of neoliberal "free markets". Meanwhile, the crooked banking mafias have been bailed out at taxpayer expense - how's that 5-years-too-late December rate hike working out for everyone's generous interest income from lending money to same? - and conspired with their government co-conspirators to blow yet another asset-price bubble which enriches only a tiny sliver of the populace and whose bursting will destroy millions more hopes, dreams and life's savings. The question in this presidential election year is, will the majority of Americans once again allow themselves to be duped into voting against their self-interest?

Fusion_power · 2016-02-02, 23:45

It is worth taking a few minutes to explore the asset bubbles currently in the economy.

The biggest is arguably the student loan bubble. It currently represents a huge chunk of many American budgets trying to pay it down.

China has to be considered another bubble, albeit a very lopsided one. Every time the economy tries to vent some gas, the Chinese government pumps it back up.

The "middle class" bubble is the most worrisome. This is the group of people being squeezed by low wages and poor service sector jobs. I'm calling this a bubble, but it is a much more complex piece of the economy than just a bubble. The economy is like a giant rubber band stretching on one end to embrace the working poor who have little and are getting less over time and the ultra rich who have much and are increasingly getting more as time goes on. The middle class is the group of people in the middle relentlessly stretched toward one end or the other.

kladner · 2016-02-13, 04:45

"Twelve Pacific Rim countries representing around 40 percent of the global economy signed the  Trans-Pacific Partnership free trade accord on Thursday. Dutch author Karel van Wolferen  examines the corporate ramifications of the divisive deal"

I can't say I'm surprised that this corporate takeover has been rammed through. It seems our best hope now, is for an unlikely Congressional coalition of Progressives and the Nationalistic Right to block ratification.

Quote:

The TPP and TPIP accords are about power, not trade. More specifically, the agreements are about changed power relations between a collectivity of politically well-connected large corporations and the sovereign states in which these entities want to sink new roots. In particular, these treaties would allow U.S. corporations to engage in conduct unchecked by national rules of the participating countries. In eyes not fogged over through neoliberal dogma, such a thing would be recognized as predation.

davar55 · 2016-02-13, 13:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by ewmayer

...
Meanwhile, the crooked banking mafias have been bailed out at taxpayer expense - how's that 5-years-too-late December rate hike working out for everyone's generous interest income from lending money to same? - and conspired with their government co-conspirators to blow yet another asset-price bubble which enriches only a tiny sliver of the populace and whose bursting will destroy millions more hopes, dreams and life's savings. The question in this presidential election year is, will the majority of Americans once again allow themselves to be duped into voting against their self-interest?

That would be the result of any move toward socialism.

kladner · 2016-02-13, 16:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by davar55

That would be the result of any move toward socialism.

Are you this self-deluding in your life outside this space?

davar55 · 2016-02-14, 08:33

Insults do not change the fact that, in spite of the insularity on this site,
socialism is anti-freedom and anti-human. You and much of humanity
seem to ignore this fact in your ridiculous attacks on freedom. Yes,
people are not perfect, hence laws and government are necessary.
But it is a purpose of government to prevent or punish crimes in order
to protect rights. Your socialism, or worse economic systems like
communism, makes the government the criminal !

Don't imagine you understand humanity and what is right for us
if you continue to pursue these unhuman and irrational views !

xilman · 2016-02-14, 08:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by davar55

Insults do not change the fact that, in spite of the insularity on this site,
socialism is anti-freedom and anti-human. You and much of humanity
seem to ignore this fact in your ridiculous attacks on freedom. Yes,
people are not perfect, hence laws and government are necessary.
But it is a purpose of government to prevent or punish crimes in order
to protect rights. Your socialism, or worse economic systems like
communism, makes the government the criminal !

Don't imagine you understand humanity and what is right for us
if you continue to pursue these unhuman and irrational views !

Please say why communism, the economic theory that means of production should be held in common, is necessarily the enemy of freedom.

You've already explained why capitalism needs to be restrained. AFAICT, exactly the same argument can, and should, be applied to communism.

davar55 · 2016-02-14, 08:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by xilman

Please say why communism, the economic theory that means of production should be held in common, is necessarily the enemy of freedom.

Individual rights.

Quote:

You've already explained why capitalism needs to be restrained. AFAICT, exactly the same argument can, and should, be applied to communism.

Communism allowed to fester cannot be restrained.

xilman · 2016-02-14, 12:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by davar55

Individual rights.
Communism allowed to fester cannot be restrained.

Capitalism inhibits individual rights. We've already established that.

Capitalism allowed to fester cannot be restrained.

davar55 · 2016-02-14, 12:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by xilman

Capitalism inhibits individual rights. We've already established that.
Capitalism Communism allowed to fester cannot be restrained.

You should know better than to be an anti-mimic.

Your definitions and comprehension of socialism and communism are
sorely lacking. Their harm has been extraordinary.

kladner · 2016-02-14, 17:29

The world has never seen perfect Socialism, any more than perfect Capitalism.

Do not fault others for taking a different approach from yours. There is a chance that capitalism can be improved by moderating its self-serving aspects. This is usually called "government regulation." That government regulation improves upon capitalism when it moderates the inherent selfishness with the more Socialist concepts of Promoting the General Welfare.

2016-02-02, 23:45	#13
Fusion_power Aug 2003 Snicker, AL 959₁₀ Posts	It is worth taking a few minutes to explore the asset bubbles currently in the economy. The biggest is arguably the student loan bubble. It currently represents a huge chunk of many American budgets trying to pay it down. China has to be considered another bubble, albeit a very lopsided one. Every time the economy tries to vent some gas, the Chinese government pumps it back up. The "middle class" bubble is the most worrisome. This is the group of people being squeezed by low wages and poor service sector jobs. I'm calling this a bubble, but it is a much more complex piece of the economy than just a bubble. The economy is like a giant rubber band stretching on one end to embrace the working poor who have little and are getting less over time and the ultra rich who have much and are increasingly getting more as time goes on. The middle class is the group of people in the middle relentlessly stretched toward one end or the other. Last fiddled with by Fusion_power on 2016-02-02 at 23:47

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2016-02-02, 10:17	#12
ewmayer ∂²ω=0 Sep 2002 República de California 2×3³×5×43 Posts	Too poor to retire and too young to die - Los Angeles Times Latter-day John Steinbeck material, brought to you by the wonders of neoliberal "free markets". Meanwhile, the crooked banking mafias have been bailed out at taxpayer expense - how's that 5-years-too-late December rate hike working out for everyone's generous interest income from lending money to same? - and conspired with their government co-conspirators to blow yet another asset-price bubble which enriches only a tiny sliver of the populace and whose bursting will destroy millions more hopes, dreams and life's savings. The question in this presidential election year is, will the majority of Americans once again allow themselves to be duped into voting against their self-interest?

2016-02-14, 08:33	#17
davar55 May 2004 New York City 1088₁₆ Posts	Insults do not change the fact that, in spite of the insularity on this site, socialism is anti-freedom and anti-human. You and much of humanity seem to ignore this fact in your ridiculous attacks on freedom. Yes, people are not perfect, hence laws and government are necessary. But it is a purpose of government to prevent or punish crimes in order to protect rights. Your socialism, or worse economic systems like communism, makes the government the criminal ! Don't imagine you understand humanity and what is right for us if you continue to pursue these unhuman and irrational views !

2016-02-14, 17:29	#22
kladner "Kieren" Jul 2011 In My Own Galaxy! 2²×2,539 Posts	The world has never seen perfect Socialism, any more than perfect Capitalism. Do not fault others for taking a different approach from yours. There is a chance that capitalism can be improved by moderating its self-serving aspects. This is usually called "government regulation." That government regulation improves upon capitalism when it moderates the inherent selfishness with the more Socialist concepts of Promoting the General Welfare.