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Old 2016-07-23, 19:46   #56
S485122
 
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...
Otherwise the state may be in deep within a few decades, given the way in which the local climate appears to be developing.
As far as I can see the big problem in California is that almonds are the most lucrative crop, that crop needs a lot of water and the water is not considered a common good : if you have the powerful pumps you just take it. The fact fact that water will not be available in the near future is something one blames on government but also on the "ecologists "and other "liberal" rabble. In the framework of financial economy it does not make sense to choose a crop that would be adapted to low water levels : the only criteria are immediate gainsin other words no future.

Jacob

Last fiddled with by S485122 on 2016-07-23 at 19:47 Reason: repaired a tag I broke
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Old 2016-07-24, 04:56   #57
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I agree: really encouraging.

What would be even more encouraging IMAO (though I have no personal stake in the game) is for CA to generate enough excess electrical power and to use it in association with solar heating to desalinate (the local part of) the Pacific ocean. Otherwise the state may be in deep :poop: within a few decades, given the way in which the local climate appears to be developing.
There is a desalination plant planned quite near me. This is a local paper.
Why South Bay environmentalists oppose West Basin’s planned ocean water desalination plant
Quote:
West Basin, a Carson-based agency that supplies much of the South Bay’s water, has spent more than a decade and tens of millions of dollars exploring building the plant on the beach in El Segundo — part of a long-term plan to make the region less dependent on imported water.

A draft EIR for the $380 million facility is taking longer than expected to completed and won’t be released until the end of the year, according to officials. Activists are using the delay to build public opposition to the project, especially since two veteran members of the panel that will vote on it — Carol Kwan and Don Dear — are up for re-election in November.

The desalination plant would need approval from regulatory agencies, including the California Coastal Commission, before operation could begin in 2023.

It could produce 20 million gallons of drinkable water to West Basin’s service area every day, and has the capacity to produce 40 million additional gallons that could be sold to other agencies.

At the heart of the debate: though West Basin says the plant will be the most environmentally friendly in the world and will only enhance efforts to increase recycling, opponents view desalination as an energy intensive last resort, and believe the agency is betting on the plant to be an independent money-maker to make up for revenue lost to conservation.
A large plant further south: Carlsbad desalination plant
Another is being considered in Huntington Beach.
A ballot measure is being considered that takes away high speed rail money to somehow help the water situation:
Kill high-speed rail and spend the money on reservoirs? Proposed California ballot measure sparks debate
Water rights and wrongs have been a mess throughout California's history. I'm pretty satisfied with the Governor actions so far and hope ballot initiatives don't screw things up too badly.
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Old 2016-07-25, 00:50   #58
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There is a desalination plant planned quite near me. This is a local paper.
Why South Bay environmentalists oppose West Basin’s planned ocean water desalination plant

A large plant further south: Carlsbad desalination plant
Another is being considered in Huntington Beach.
A ballot measure is being considered that takes away high speed rail money to somehow help the water situation:
Kill high-speed rail and spend the money on reservoirs? Proposed California ballot measure sparks debate
Water rights and wrongs have been a mess throughout California's history. I'm pretty satisfied with the Governor actions so far and hope ballot initiatives don't screw things up too badly.
Desalination necessarily implies doing something with the salt. Dumping it back in the ocean should not be the solution ().

Also, there are multiple ways to desalinate. Some of them could be directly solar-driven without the electric intermediary, other than that needed to transport the water.
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Old 2016-07-25, 01:06   #59
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Originally Posted by kladner View Post
Desalination necessarily implies doing something with the salt. Dumping it back in the ocean should not be the solution ().
Why not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kladner View Post
Also, there are multiple ways to desalinate. Some of them could be directly solar-driven without the electric intermediary, other than that needed to transport the water.
Sure. In cases of emergency one can desalinate using nothing more than a black plastic bag, a stick, and two buckets.
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Old 2016-07-25, 01:10   #60
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Why not?
It over-salinates the dumping zone. This is bound to alter the ecosystem, though I don't know exactly what effects this might have. I have seen other such distortions around power plant (warm) cooling water outlets into natural bodies of water.
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Old 2016-07-25, 01:24   #61
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It over-salinates the dumping zone. This is bound to alter the ecosystem, though I don't know exactly what effects this might have. I have seen other such distortions around power plant (warm) cooling water outlets into natural bodies of water.
Brine water is heavier than water. It will flow downwards.

Warm cooling water is another issue. It will tend to flow upwards.

Interestingly, it has been shown that warm water promotes plant growth and fish populations around power plants.
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Old 2016-07-25, 01:58   #62
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Brine water is heavier than water. It will flow downwards.
And have an impact on bottom dwellers.

Quote:
Warm cooling water is another issue. It will tend to flow upwards.

Interestingly, it has been shown that warm water promotes plant growth and fish populations around power plants.
My family used to regularly drive past a Houston Lighting and Power cooling outlet. The current was fairly strong, suggesting plenty of aeration. The most noticeable thing was the number of fishing birds working the area.

Nothing exactly wrong with any of this. It's just that we should be cautious about altering existing balances with new projects. Plan in advance to deal with the effluent constructively.
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Old 2016-07-25, 02:31   #63
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Plan in advance to deal with the effluent constructively.
Completely agree!
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Old 2016-07-25, 06:55   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kladner View Post
Desalination necessarily implies doing something with the salt. Dumping it back in the ocean should not be the solution ().

Also, there are multiple ways to desalinate. Some of them could be directly solar-driven without the electric intermediary, other than that needed to transport the water.
Where I go on holiday ("vacation" for the Americans) desalination of seawater is a commercial activity. They dump the water to the atmosphere and sell the salt. Water is too common there to be salable.

This is La Palma in the Canaries. Is there not a market for salt in and around California?
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Old 2016-07-25, 15:34   #65
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Originally Posted by xilman View Post
Where I go on holiday ("vacation" for the Americans) desalination of seawater is a commercial activity. They dump the water to the atmosphere and sell the salt. Water is too common there to be salable.

This is La Palma in the Canaries. Is there not a market for salt in and around California?
There must be some demand. There have been sea salt evaporating beds by San Francisco Bay for a long time.

I wonder at what point it becomes worthwhile to extract other minerals, if one has big piles of concentrated sea water contents to work with.
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Old 2016-07-25, 17:14   #66
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Originally Posted by kladner View Post
There must be some demand. There have been sea salt evaporating beds by San Francisco Bay for a long time.

I wonder at what point it becomes worthwhile to extract other minerals, if one has big piles of concentrated sea water contents to work with.
The most abundant dissolved ions in seawater are sodium, chloride, magnesium, sulfate and calcium.

NaCl is common table salt
Sulfates are already extracted from oil and gas in large quantities.
And magnesium and calcium are quite common.
The remaining element are in minute quantities, so you'll need to process large amounts of seawater before extracting useful quantities.
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