mersenneforum.org Economic prospects for solar photovoltaic power
 Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

2013-08-25, 06:58   #45

"Kieren"
Jul 2011
In My Own Galaxy!

2×3×1,693 Posts

Quote:
 Most peaker plants, to my knowledge, tend to be gas turbine (quick to start and stop), 'small' hydro like the ones mentioned, and landfill gas and biomass plants. There are likely some gas (not petrol) fired IC's too.
That is certainly true for capacity which has to be brought up somewhat unexpectedly. But the fluctuations through the day are somewhat predictable and tend to be cyclical. Some less responsive plants, like coal fired, can be online when a peak is expected.

I have no idea what the details of capacities and load times are in Chappy's situation. The implication I took was that another, larger such "water battery" could have carried over enough cheap night power to feed out at peak daytime demand, such that the coal plant he works at might have been taken off line.

Last fiddled with by kladner on 2013-08-25 at 07:01

2013-08-26, 17:12   #46
chalsall
If I May

"Chris Halsall"
Sep 2002

3×52×127 Posts

Quote:
 Originally Posted by kladner I have no idea what the details of capacities and load times are in Chappy's situation. The implication I took was that another, larger such "water battery" could have carried over enough cheap night power to feed out at peak daytime demand, such that the coal plant he works at might have been taken off line.
Lunch is over, but another energy storage technology to consider...

Distributed Flywheel storage.

And, a graph of the "200 Volt" power input to one of my clients by the local electrical supplier for the last month....
Attached Thumbnails

 2013-09-03, 01:45 #47 chappy     "Jeff" Feb 2012 St. Louis, Missouri, USA 13·89 Posts http://www.nrel.gov/news/press/2013/2283.html An extensive review of the probable future of renewables (mainly solar and wind) in the Western Continental US. Geothermal (something we haven't spent many pixels on) solves many of the problems of other renewables but won't be cost effective for some time.
2013-10-10, 04:04   #48
only_human

"Gang aft agley"
Sep 2002

2×1,877 Posts

A huge solar farm with molten salt storage is ready to go live in Arizona
Quote:
 When the sun is out full blast, the solar farm produces a lot of heat and pumps some of that into the molten salt tanks. When the sun goes behind a cloud, or at night, the farm can turn to the energy storage tech to offer power for another six hours.
Quote:
 The power from Solana will be enough to provide electricity for 70,000 households, or 280 MW. Arizona’s largest utility Arizona Public Service (APS) will purchase all of the solar power from the farm.
Quote:
 The farm cost $2 billion to build and was part of the controversial loan guarantee program from the Department of Energy. Abengoa was awarded a$1.45 billion loan guarantee in 2010 — the largest for clean power out of that program.
This is a steam turbine instead of photovoltaic.

Last fiddled with by only_human on 2013-10-10 at 04:16

2013-10-10, 17:32   #49
chalsall
If I May

"Chris Halsall"
Sep 2002

3·52·127 Posts

Quote:
 Originally Posted by only_human A huge solar farm with molten salt storage is ready to go live in Arizona
Very cool!

I've always thought that molten salt storage was a very smart idea, and have proposed it many times to the Government and the power Company here.

Unfortunately, the suggestion fell on deaf ears, although admittedly it is rather leading edge. Heck, Barbados is only now finally starting to get serious about photovoltaics (and the Company is trying to limit how much power is fed back into the grid )....

2013-10-11, 06:13   #50
LaurV
Romulan Interpreter

Jun 2011
Thailand

100100100110012 Posts

Quote:
 Originally Posted by only_human ....molten salt.... steam turbine...
Quote:
 Originally Posted by chalsall Very cool!
You are nuts! Than what is warm? Molten lava?

In fact, hmm... only 6 hours after sun goes down?!?!?
Maybe molten lava (or steel) would be better indeed! hehe...

2013-10-11, 08:07   #51
chalsall
If I May

"Chris Halsall"
Sep 2002

3·52·127 Posts

Quote:
 Originally Posted by LaurV You are nuts! Than what is warm? Molten lava?
Plasma.

2013-10-11, 12:34   #52
Uncwilly
6809 > 6502

"""""""""""""""""""
Aug 2003
101×103 Posts

224128 Posts

Quote:
 Originally Posted by chalsall I've always thought that molten salt storage was a very smart idea, and have proposed it many times to the Government and the power Company here.
This project with hot rock and oil storage was completed in 1981.

2016-07-23, 15:50   #53
only_human

"Gang aft agley"
Sep 2002

2×1,877 Posts

As solar floods California grid, challenges loom
Quote:
 Just after 1 p.m. Tuesday, large solar plants scattered across California produced a record 8,030 megawatts of electricity, according to the California Independent System Operator, the organization that runs most of the state’s power grid. That’s nearly twice as much solar power as California could generate just two years ago — and it doesn’t even count the electricity produced by hundreds of thousands of small rooftop solar arrays statewide.
Quote:
 When electricity demand on Tuesday reached its peak, at 5:54 p.m., almost 29 percent of the electricity coursing over the grid came from renewable sources, according to the Independent System Operator. For a brief time on May 16, renewables accounted for 56 percent of the grid’s electricity, according to the operator.

2016-07-23, 16:56   #54

"Kieren"
Jul 2011
In My Own Galaxy!

236568 Posts

Quote:
 Originally Posted by only_human As solar floods California grid, challenges loom
That is really encouraging. I hope that CA is setting the pace for others to follow, as it has in the past. Even a brief peak over 50% is remarkable. Too bad it is more difficult to store actual electricity than it is to store heat. With large wind and solar-voltaic components in the supply, it is harder to get away from fossil peak generation.

When it comes to solar-thermal installations, I hope the central tower model does not expand too much more. Parabolic troughs don't burn birds, as far as I know.

2016-07-23, 18:48   #55
xilman
Bamboozled!

"𒉺𒌌𒇷𒆷𒀭"
May 2003
Down not across

22×3×887 Posts

Quote:
 Originally Posted by kladner That is really encouraging. I hope that CA is setting the pace for others to follow, as it has in the past. Even a brief peak over 50% is remarkable. Too bad it is more difficult to store actual electricity than it is to store heat. With large wind and solar-voltaic components in the supply, it is harder to get away from fossil peak generation.
I agree: really encouraging.

What would be even more encouraging IMAO (though I have no personal stake in the game) is for CA to generate enough excess electrical power and to use it in association with solar heating to desalinate (the local part of) the Pacific ocean. Otherwise the state may be in deep within a few decades, given the way in which the local climate appears to be developing.

 Similar Threads Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post ewmayer Mlucas 183 2019-02-25 08:17 kladner Science & Technology 6 2015-03-10 01:43 Batalov Lounge 21 2012-05-21 14:06 Raman Astronomy 5 2009-07-25 16:19 mfgoode Lounge 16 2005-10-05 18:49

All times are UTC. The time now is 23:04.

Wed Apr 14 23:04:37 UTC 2021 up 6 days, 17:45, 0 users, load averages: 2.16, 2.47, 2.43