mersenneforum.org  

Go Back   mersenneforum.org > Great Internet Mersenne Prime Search > Hardware

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2019-07-03, 05:30   #12
NookieN
 
NookieN's Avatar
 
Aug 2002

2×29 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ewmayer View Post
If/when the HD fails in will go the SSD, and I will use one remaining HD as the backup for that. In fact I may do the swap sooner that that because waiting ~60 seconds for the HD-based system to come out of hibernate mode, multiple times per day, gets quite wearisome.
I suppose this is off-topic but I'm curious--in what usage scenarios would you put a system into hibernate multiple times per day?
NookieN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2019-07-03, 05:42   #13
LaurV
Romulan Interpreter
 
LaurV's Avatar
 
Jun 2011
Thailand

243116 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NookieN View Post
I suppose this is off-topic but I'm curious--in what usage scenarios would you put a system into hibernate multiple times per day?
On Mercury.
LaurV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2019-07-03, 09:59   #14
M344587487
 
M344587487's Avatar
 
"Composite as Heck"
Oct 2017

10111110012 Posts
Default

Hard drives are not obsolete but they are on the way out for the mainstream and long term storage, the niche they still fill is bulk midterm storage. SSDs have come down in price and will eventually beat HDDs in price per capacity which will be the killer blow for that remaining use case. SSDs are also not limited in form factor, M.2 is great for mainstream system builders and intel's ruler form factor is an example of adapting to fit a server's requirements. intel is working on persistent storage from RAM slots (Optane DIMMS) which is interesting. In 10 years it may be the case that CPUs have HBM3/4 integrated into the CPU package with DIMM slots still existing but being for optional additional DDR5/6 working memory and persistent Optane or equivalent storage.
M344587487 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2019-07-03, 11:08   #15
nomead
 
nomead's Avatar
 
"Sam Laur"
Dec 2018
Turku, Finland

2×3×5×11 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by M344587487 View Post
Hard drives are not obsolete but they are on the way out for the mainstream and long term storage, the niche they still fill is bulk midterm storage. .
Maybe I'm not aware of the latest developments in the storage business. What is replacing them in long term storage? Can't be tape, for example, that has only occupied a small niche with very specific requirements for some time now.
nomead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2019-07-03, 13:58   #16
Uncwilly
6809 > 6502
 
Uncwilly's Avatar
 
"""""""""""""""""""
Aug 2003
101×103 Posts

9,341 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NookieN View Post
I suppose this is off-topic but I'm curious--in what usage scenarios would you put a system into hibernate multiple times per day?
During commutes and other times when it will be closed for 30 minutes or so. With hibernate vs sleep, you can extend the effective battery life (wall time between recharge events) for some schedules.
Uncwilly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2019-07-03, 15:14   #17
CRGreathouse
 
CRGreathouse's Avatar
 
Aug 2006

135248 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by retina View Post
I have banned SSDs from my lairs systems. Too small. Too expensive. And not enough faster to make any meaningful difference. I don't care if a machine boots 10 seconds faster, it's going to be running for months between restarts so I'd much rather have the data capacity (and more money in my pocket) than save 40 seconds each year.
I think it's good to know your needs. I had been running on a tiny, outdated hard drive with maybe 6 full OS installs just sitting there because there was no reason to delete them, so I knew that moving to an SSD was practical for me -- I use very little space, but my speed requirements are high (I do lots of math crunching which overflows RAM). For people with more expansive space requirements, needs will obviously differ.
CRGreathouse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2019-07-03, 17:59   #18
aurashift
 
Jan 2015

111111012 Posts
Default

Form factors: EDSFF>Intel Ruler>Samsung NF1. They all look the same, EDSFF is the open one. All NVMe flash. M.2 and U.2 both have problems fixed by EDSFF. Its new, but we can fit 800TB in a 1RU server now.



Persistent memory isn't new. NVDIMMs (battery backed DRAM) are a thing, its fast as DIMMs and non-volatile, but you don't get the large capacities like with Optane Persistent Memory. They're best used as cache devices for a storage pipeline, imho.



Optane persistent memory is a 3DNAND chip in a DIMM form factor. (Large capacity with 20GB/s per DIMM channel) Your application needs to support it though.


Traditional spinning rust *may* be good for your warm (not hot) tier. It really sucks in terms of IOPS. Flash (NVMe) is going to get cheaper and eventually displace spinning rust.
aurashift is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2019-07-03, 19:02   #19
ewmayer
2ω=0
 
ewmayer's Avatar
 
Sep 2002
República de California

2×7×829 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncwilly View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by NookieN View Post
I suppose this is off-topic but I'm curious--in what usage scenarios would you put a system into hibernate multiple times per day?
During commutes and other times when it will be closed for 30 minutes or so. With hibernate vs sleep, you can extend the effective battery life (wall time between recharge events) for some schedules.
Exactly. Note that Apple does not actually include a hibernate option - only the still-power-drawing 'sleep' - on Macbooks, so that requires a little hackery to enable, here is what I set when configuring my system to enable hibernate-on-lid-close:

sudo pmset -a hibernatemode 25
ewmayer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2019-07-08, 22:28   #20
Madpoo
Serpentine Vermin Jar
 
Madpoo's Avatar
 
Jul 2014

CDA16 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aurashift View Post
...
Traditional spinning rust *may* be good for your warm (not hot) tier. It really sucks in terms of IOPS. Flash (NVMe) is going to get cheaper and eventually displace spinning rust.
^^ This ^^

Whether you use SSD or spinning disks depends a lot on your specific needs.

I've had both types fail, recently, at about the same rate. This is on a video recording system, so they get a LOT of write activity.

I keep the most recent recordings on RAID arrays of SSD, so the write performance is up there, and it gives good playback speeds when needed, without affecting all of the other cameras still writing to disk.

For long term archiving, capacity is more important than speed, so a few spinning disks in a RAID array give me the space, and still performs well when doing playback of something older, when I might be rapidly zipping through a day's worth of recording from some camera or another.

Ultimately all the churn will cause failures. I think in my case, my SSD failures to date were due to me using SSD drives that were pulled from machines heading to the great recycle bin in the sky, so who knows how many write cycles they'd already logged (I didn't check). I also try now to move things to the long term archives when there's still about 25% free space on the SSD drives, so I'm keeping a good amount of space available for wear leveling.

The failure of the spinning disks was a mystery to me... they were purchased new, WD purple which is supposed to be good for just this type of thing, but for whatever reason one drive or another fails. I switched to Seagate and we'll see if they hold out any longer.
Madpoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2019-07-09, 01:00   #21
retina
Undefined
 
retina's Avatar
 
"The unspeakable one"
Jun 2006
My evil lair

35·52 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Madpoo View Post
The failure of the spinning disks was a mystery to me... they were purchased new, WD purple which is supposed to be good for just this type of thing, but for whatever reason one drive or another fails. I switched to Seagate and we'll see if they hold out any longer.
IME the branding makes no real difference. People who have had WD fail on them will then swear to never use them again, and other people who have had Hitachi fail on them will then swear to never use them again, and other people who have had <brand> fail on them will then swear to never use them again, ... etc. etc. etc.

It is just a giant merry-go-round. They all fail eventually. Don't worry about the brand, just buy what you need and plan for failures accordingly.
retina is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2019-07-09, 01:50   #22
Mark Rose
 
Mark Rose's Avatar
 
"/X\(‘-‘)/X\"
Jan 2013

29·101 Posts
Default

I just had a 1 TB Seagate HD head crash on me. I have another spare 1 TB drive to restore the RAID, but it got me to thinking: why not just throw the data from that 3-drive RAID5 on a 2 TB SSD and backup to spinning rust? Even 4 TB SATA SSDs are inexpensive now.
Mark Rose is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
When do you guys think solid state(or something else) will overtake hard drives for bulk storage? jasong jasong 10 2016-02-27 17:08
Anyone experience problems with USB hard drives? Jeff Gilchrist Hardware 10 2011-05-18 13:16
Any thoughts on large hard drives... petrw1 Hardware 21 2010-04-27 21:33
Forecasting when flash memory will do the same task as hard drives. jasong Science & Technology 8 2006-03-31 21:08
Assigned [or cleared] exponents that are already obsolete GP2 Data 21 2003-10-21 03:58

All times are UTC. The time now is 11:18.

Thu Feb 25 11:18:43 UTC 2021 up 84 days, 7:30, 0 users, load averages: 1.75, 1.52, 1.39

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum has received and complied with 0 (zero) government requests for information.

Permission is granted to copy, distribute and/or modify this document under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.2 or any later version published by the Free Software Foundation.
A copy of the license is included in the FAQ.