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Old 2017-02-20, 23:52   #23
jasong
 
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Originally Posted by CRGreathouse View Post
You seem to be more than a little confused.

Evolution is entirely compatible with a young earth. There's excellent scientific evidence that the earth is old, but there's no reason a priori that you couldn't have a young earth with evolution. If we didn't have the geological record but we had modern microbiology we might plausibly believe in a young earth with evolution.

But let's continue to lump those together as old-earth evolution. If Jesus came to earth to die for our sins, and his death was retro-active, then what's the problem with old-earth evolution? If Jesus' grace is enough to save Moses and Elijah, why could it not be enough to save even those who had died earlier? Why should He be so limited?
Because the Bible teaches that sin CAUSED death to come to the Earth. It teaches that sin came first. Christ's forgiveness might be retro-active, but sin didn't retro-actively cause death.
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Old 2017-02-20, 23:54   #24
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Originally Posted by jasong View Post
Jesus literally claimed to be God.

If a man claims to be God, but isn't, and it happens in modern times, would you show that person respect or put them in a looney bin?

He's either God, a liar or crazy.
"Thou art God!" -Michael Valentine Smith via Robert Anson Heinlein
But this applied to everybody, in his view.

Last fiddled with by kladner on 2017-02-20 at 23:55 Reason: ,
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Old 2017-02-21, 00:32   #25
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Originally Posted by jasong View Post
Because the Bible teaches that sin CAUSED death to come to the Earth.
This is not clear to me, what is your textual evidence? Gen 2:17 is an implication, not a biimplication.
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Old 2017-02-21, 06:06   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jasong View Post
Jesus literally claimed to be God.
NOPE!

I would suggest that you read "When Jesus became God".
Read this web page (which I found with a simple google search) : "http://www.auburn.edu/~allenkc/trinity.html#_1_12"
Or this one:
https://www.ucg.org/bible-study-tool...inity-biblical

I am will to discuss this with you personally if you wish.
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Old 2017-02-21, 07:56   #27
Dubslow
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Originally Posted by henryzz View Post
I would argue that the Earth is probably fairly young(maybe 10s of thousands of years). We have no proof. Millions sounds unlikely though.
?

The geological record, not to mention everything we know about nebular dynamics, thermodynamics, and intraplanetary/chemical-dynamics, are incompatible with the earth as we observe it to be today being anything less than billions of years old.
Quote:
Originally Posted by henryzz View Post
The Bible is not a scientific document.
Which is why I generally try to avoid debates over any details it covers, which I think I did reasonably well in my first post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chalsall View Post
One of the tenets of Science is we can't *know* for sure. But we can do our best to try to understand our observations, and use these theories to make predictions.

And when the predictions don't match the observations, we go back to try to figure out why our theories are wrong....
By that standard philosophical argument I don't know that I'll wake up tomorrow, and in a certain sense it's true. But for the purposes of "science", empirical observation and inductive reasoning, we accept a certain threshold of confidence to mean "know".

And all the stuff the two of us have mentioned have no way to determine a confidence level -- we literally can't put a [scientifically meaningful] number to it even if we wanted to. That's why I say orthogonal.

Last fiddled with by Dubslow on 2017-02-21 at 07:58 Reason: one quarter of the writing i originally put into this disappeared when i submitted :( rip
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Old 2017-02-21, 11:04   #28
henryzz
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Originally Posted by Dubslow View Post
?

The geological record, not to mention everything we know about nebular dynamics, thermodynamics, and intraplanetary/chemical-dynamics, are incompatible with the earth as we observe it to be today being anything less than billions of years old.
And this leads to the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Earth_creationism theory.
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Old 2017-02-21, 12:43   #29
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Old 2017-02-21, 14:48   #30
jasong
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncwilly View Post
NOPE!

I would suggest that you read "When Jesus became God".
Read this web page (which I found with a simple google search) : "http://www.auburn.edu/~allenkc/trinity.html#_1_12"
Or this one:
https://www.ucg.org/bible-study-tool...inity-biblical

I am will to discuss this with you personally if you wish.
This is a conundrum. I googled it and found a page that claimed the Trinity isn't a real thing, but with all or most of the verses quoted, II concluded the exact opposite of what the author stated, that they are one and separate at the same time.

And as for the claim that the Trinity exists as "an excuse not to try to be perfect" I simply disagree with that, it's simply something that separates Christians from other Christians without adding anything to the discussion. I believe being perfect is a supernatural behavior and that I was born imperfect from being born from imperfect beings. My new body won't be imperfect, therefore no more sin will happen at that point. It's not an excuse to sin, it's simply what I feel to be an explanation of what's going on.

That being said, if you want to pm me about it, you may. Even if we disagree, we can learn from each other. :)
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Old 2017-02-22, 03:32   #31
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Originally Posted by jasong View Post
Troll's flamebait is trolly and flame-baity.
which is to say you are content with your small-minded concept of deity. It isn't my place to change that. I just wonder why so many of you Christians think, "I can't understand how X could be true, therefore God couldn't have done it also."
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Old 2017-02-22, 10:57   #32
henryzz
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Why is it that Christians have such small views of the possibility of G-d?

As if such a beings actions could be limited by the conceptions of a human understanding?
I agree a common fault with Christians. We don't stand a chance of understanding an omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent God with a finite human brain.
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Old 2017-02-22, 13:02   #33
retina
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Quote:
Originally Posted by henryzz View Post
We don't stand a chance of understanding an omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent God with a finite human brain.
First step is you have to prove god exists before you can start bestowing attributes like omni*.
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