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2020-07-07, 07:36   #166
sweety439

Nov 2016

2×5×13×19 Posts

Quote:
 Originally Posted by kar_bon Some new changes: - There's now a small menu on top of every page instead of the info block. Links to helpful pages are now available for new users or even for a quick overview. Especially the "Template prototypes" should be used by every user when creating new prime pages: all current prototype are available for the implemented prime types. Using those won't miss any parameter or using false ones. Other links are still available in the left side menu. - There're two new categories for Riesel primes in the Wiki: 1) k-values without any Sophie Germain prime 2) k-values without any twin prime These only holds for k-values $k \equiv 0\ mod\ 3$ The conditions will be generated by the Riesel template, so could be take some time, if all k-values are updated by the Wiki.
The "twin prime pair" is a Riesel prime and a Proth prime with the same values of k and n, but the wiki only has category "Riesel prime without twin" and does not have category "Proth prime with twin", I know that they are the same values of k and n, but why only the Riesel primes have this category, but the Proth primes do not have?

Also, Sophie-Germain prime is two consecutive values of n for a fixed value of k for Riesel prime (k*2^n-1), why the wiki do not have the page of two consecutive values of n for a fixed value of k for Proth prime (k*2^n+1)? See the page http://harvey563.tripod.com/cunninghams.txt, the CK of Proth primes is 32469, which is mush larger than that of Riesell primes (807)

 2020-07-07, 09:39 #167 kar_bon     Mar 2006 Germany 1011001001002 Posts The Wiki make high use of templates, which are still more in testing phase than complete. Over the last weeks I've changed the Riesel prime template for serveral issues and additions: - determine if a SopheiGermain is present - determine if a Twin is present - determine if a tested n-range is missing - determine if there's no prime - categorizing a k-value into special categories depending of such information - added parameter for counting n-values Those changes still in test-mode and others could implemented later. If all such changes needed are done, the same can be easily done for other templates like Proth. Before editing several templates for any change done, it's easier to test them on one template and be sure it's running properly. For Twins: As you can see, if any Twin is given in a Riesel k-value, it's shown as link to the Proth side... automatically! The same is done later on Proth side. Stop pushing others, try to clean "your" dozenal "wiki"!
2020-07-07, 14:12   #168
storm5510
Random Account

Aug 2009
U.S.A.

32×11×17 Posts

Quote:
 Originally Posted by kar_bon The Wiki make high use of templates, which are still more in testing phase than complete. Over the last weeks I've changed the Riesel prime template for serveral issues and additions: - determine if a SopheiGermain is present - determine if a Twin is present - determine if a tested n-range is missing - determine if there's no prime - categorizing a k-value into special categories depending of such information - added parameter for counting n-values Those changes still in test-mode and others could implemented later. If all such changes needed are done, the same can be easily done for other templates like Proth. Before editing several templates for any change done, it's easier to test them on one template and be sure it's running properly. For Twins: As you can see, if any Twin is given in a Riesel k-value, it's shown as link to the Proth side... automatically! The same is done later on Proth side. Stop pushing others, try to clean "your" dozenal "wiki"!

Dozenal? I have never seen this before.

Proth: There appears to be two types in the Wiki: k*2^n+1 and k*3^n+1. Neither seems to attract much attention. Their relationship to 2^p-1 is obvious. There is none. However, I find them interesting even though Nash values are different for the "+1" form. The little program I have cannot calculate them. Oh well.

2020-07-07, 14:44   #169
Happy5214

"Alexander"
Nov 2008
The Alamo City

11·37 Posts

Quote:
 Originally Posted by storm5510 However, I find them interesting even though Nash values are different for the "+1" form. The little program I have cannot calculate them. Oh well.
Try https://www.mersenneforum.org/showthread.php?t=7213. Those tools can calculate both Riesel and Proth Nash weights (use a positive k for Proth and a negative k for Riesel).

2020-07-07, 17:31   #170
storm5510
Random Account

Aug 2009
U.S.A.

32·11·17 Posts

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Happy5214 Try https://www.mersenneforum.org/showthread.php?t=7213. Those tools can calculate both Riesel and Proth Nash weights (use a positive k for Proth and a negative k for Riesel).
There are several links in this thread. Which post number are you referring to?

Thank you!

 2020-07-07, 18:57 #171 kar_bon     Mar 2006 Germany 22×23×31 Posts I've created a page for the Nash weight tool (for WIN) in the Wiki with downloadlink and some external links.
2020-07-07, 20:20   #172
kar_bon

Mar 2006
Germany

22×23×31 Posts

Quote:
 Originally Posted by storm5510 Proth: There appears to be two types in the Wiki: k*2^n+1 and k*3^n+1. Neither seems to attract much attention.
I'm concentrating on the Riesel side first, as said those template will be changed further and if running perfect will be converted to the Proth prime template and others.

Base 3 Proth (same as Base 5) are first attempts to create a template for the general form not base 2, same done for Riesel.
The aim for the Wiki was to find an easy way to save and display such sequences.

This is also for later changes: The creation of the Williams prime template was easy, but should later be used by General Riesel/Proth prime pages like shown at Williams prime 26*27^n+1 (that's why base 3 here).

PrimeGrid is extensively testing Proth primes for k<10,000 so there is much attention.

PS: Keep in mind the data I've collected for more than 10 years in my RPPDb pages could not instantly shown in the Wiki.
There's more work in need to show and save such different sequences with much more data (history).
Imagine how the Wiki would look like in 10 years from now.

Last fiddled with by kar_bon on 2020-07-07 at 20:23 Reason: PS

2020-07-08, 00:05   #173
storm5510
Random Account

Aug 2009
U.S.A.

32×11×17 Posts

Quote:
 Originally Posted by kar_bon I'm concentrating on the Riesel side first, as said those template will be changed further and if running perfect will be converted to the Proth prime template and others. Base 3 Proth (same as Base 5) are first attempts to create a template for the general form not base 2, same done for Riesel. The aim for the Wiki was to find an easy way to save and display such sequences. This is also for later changes: The creation of the Williams prime template was easy, but should later be used by General Riesel/Proth prime pages like shown at Williams prime 26*27^n+1 (that's why base 3 here). PrimeGrid is extensively testing Proth primes for k<10,000 so there is much attention. PS: Keep in mind the data I've collected for more than 10 years in my RPPDb pages could not instantly shown in the Wiki. There's more work in need to show and save such different sequences with much more data (history). Imagine how the Wiki would look like in 10 years from now.
I really do not see how you are doing this all on your own. The challenge of collecting data from various places and consolidating it in one area is beyond monumental. If I had to do this, I believe I would be prone to displays of what some call a short-fuse. Frustration mixed with a bit of anger. I have seen this in your writing at times and it is quite understandable. 10 years? I see remarkable differences in it now. I look at it daily most times.

I have found Primegrid a bit hard to navigate. I did not spend much time with it either. That would take some study on my part.

Thank you for the Nash link. Oh! Dozenal. That did not take much time. Base 12.

2020-07-08, 06:25   #174
kar_bon

Mar 2006
Germany

22×23×31 Posts

Quote:
 Originally Posted by storm5510 I really do not see how you are doing this all on your own.
That's what I've done over years in RPPDb, collecting data on my own.

The Wiki is an easier solution for everyone to contribute their own results into (non)existing pages. Only fill in a template with some data and the display and all other things (categorizing, displaying in several tables, reservations) are done automatically.
That's why the functioning of the templates has to be guaranteed first.
PrimeGrid has a tool to show their primes found for a project/type but still no list like Kellers page or my old ones.
The hard part of such collection is the history, because much of any links given elsewhere are not available anymore, I saw this again when I created the page for the Nash weight.
This forum is also full of them and others, too. It's a pitty loosing such old data from projects like RieselSieve or Seventeen or Bust or even small personel pages.

2020-07-08, 11:08   #175
Happy5214

"Alexander"
Nov 2008
The Alamo City

11×37 Posts

Quote:
 Originally Posted by storm5510 There are several links in this thread. Which post number are you referring to? Thank you!
Sorry, https://www.mersenneforum.org/showpo...6&postcount=19. That zip also includes the mnash tool. The only difference in nash.c in this version compared to the one Karsten linked on the wiki is a very subtle integer type difference, which shouldn't affect functionality.

2020-07-08, 13:46   #176
storm5510
Random Account

Aug 2009
U.S.A.

32×11×17 Posts

Quote:
 Originally Posted by kar_bon ...This forum is also full of them and others, too. It's a pitty loosing such old data from projects like RieselSieve or Seventeen or Bust or even small personel pages.
This is why I advocated using the Wiki so firmly a while back. It appeared at the time that many of the members seemed disinterested in using it and would continue to post their results only in the forums.

I do not know if the section of the forum entitled Archived Projects would be of any use or not. I suspect those old projects will be deleted entirely at some point in the future.

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Happy5214 Sorry, https://www.mersenneforum.org/showpo...6&postcount=19. That zip also includes the mnash tool.
After some experimentation with MNash, I found it to be very useful. Thank you!

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