mersenneforum.org  

Go Back   mersenneforum.org > Extra Stuff > Blogorrhea > jasong

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2012-11-26, 00:52   #1
jasong
 
jasong's Avatar
 
"Jason Goatcher"
Mar 2005

350710 Posts
Default When are we no longer humane?

I couldn't come up with a good title yet again. The question is how much can you remove from a human without taking away their humanity? Does the brain need to stay? If you transfer their memories to a robot that doesn't operate in the same way as a human, are they still human? What if you stick an infant's brain into a robot that can move around independently, but the robot looks nothing like a human and no one tells it that its main processor is a human brain?
jasong is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-11-26, 01:31   #2
CRGreathouse
 
CRGreathouse's Avatar
 
Aug 2006

32·5·7·19 Posts
Default

For now, I'd say human = has a human brain. We're extremely far from being able to put a humanlike brain on a computer, much further than having human-level artificial intelligence.
CRGreathouse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-11-27, 15:25   #3
Flatlander
I quite division it
 
Flatlander's Avatar
 
"Chris"
Feb 2005
England

81D16 Posts
Default

Being human involves:
The ability to make edible ball bearings.
Crying when you are happy.
Not being completely turned into a cyberman if you are really strong.
Flatlander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-11-27, 18:25   #4
xilman
Bamboozled!
 
xilman's Avatar
 
"π’‰Ίπ’ŒŒπ’‡·π’†·π’€­"
May 2003
Down not across

26·167 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jasong View Post
I couldn't come up with a good title yet again. The question is how much can you remove from a human without taking away their humanity? Does the brain need to stay? If you transfer their memories to a robot that doesn't operate in the same way as a human, are they still human? What if you stick an infant's brain into a robot that can move around independently, but the robot looks nothing like a human and no one tells it that its main processor is a human brain?
Good questions!

AFAIK, none of them have clear cut answers.


Something to think about: is HeLa human? Some biologists, only a small minority I believe, would prefer it to be categorised as a separate species.


Paul
xilman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-11-27, 18:41   #5
firejuggler
 
firejuggler's Avatar
 
Apr 2010
Over the rainbow

1010000001102 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flatlander View Post
Being human involves:
The ability to make edible ball bearings.
Crying when you are happy.
Not being completely turned into a cyberman if you are really strong.
I would dissagree with you, Flatlander. Any sentient species would qualifies. For now, 'we' are the only one. Future is open.

for the title :
Human, Limited (c)

Last fiddled with by firejuggler on 2012-11-27 at 18:43
firejuggler is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-11-27, 19:14   #6
Batalov
 
Batalov's Avatar
 
"Serge"
Mar 2008
Phi(4,2^7658614+1)/2

943610 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by xilman View Post
Good questions!

AFAIK, none of them have clear cut answers.


Something to think about: is HeLa human? Some biologists, only a small minority I believe, would prefer it to be categorised as a separate species.


Paul
Paul just opened a can of worms! Any cancer cell line (especially after a thousand generations) (and I have dealt with 1065 different ones) is in a lot of sense no longer related to the host - they may have four copies of some chromosome segment and lack some other chromosome completely... etc etc. They have translocated and fused chromosomes. That's far more distant from any human than any human from a chimp.

Even a cancer that is still in a human is in some sense no longer strictly human by DNA. It's an endless topic.

But by the "has a human brain" definition, HeLa (it was a set of uterus, not brain cells) is surely not human. But what about a brain cell line!?
Batalov is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-11-27, 21:03   #7
xilman
Bamboozled!
 
xilman's Avatar
 
"π’‰Ίπ’ŒŒπ’‡·π’†·π’€­"
May 2003
Down not across

29C016 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Batalov View Post
Paul just opened a can of worms!
I don't think I can take the credit for that.

Jasong opened the can. I merely drew attention to some of its contents.
xilman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-11-28, 07:42   #8
ET_
Banned
 
ET_'s Avatar
 
"Luigi"
Aug 2002
Team Italia

2·29·83 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Batalov View Post
But by the "has a human brain" definition, HeLa (it was a set of uterus, not brain cells) is surely not human. But what about a brain cell line!?
Because in Latin, "cervice" is used for both brain and uterus...

Luigi
ET_ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-11-28, 07:55   #9
Batalov
 
Batalov's Avatar
 
"Serge"
Mar 2008
Phi(4,2^7658614+1)/2

22×7×337 Posts
Default

Neck?
I know about neck (both organs are at the neck).
(It's a pain in the neck ;-)
Quote:
Maritus est cerebrum
Uxore est collum et vertit cerebri, ubi ipsa velit
Batalov is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-12-03, 22:23   #10
only_human
 
only_human's Avatar
 
"Gang aft agley"
Sep 2002

2×1,877 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jasong View Post
The question is how much can you remove from a human without taking away their humanity?
Similarly, how much can you replace and still be the same person?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus

Last fiddled with by only_human on 2012-12-03 at 22:29 Reason: s/change/replace
only_human is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-12-04, 05:00   #11
LaurV
Romulan Interpreter
 
LaurV's Avatar
 
Jun 2011
Thailand

223548 Posts
Default

We are no longer humane when we make such clips:
(edit: if you go directly on youtube, the comments worth all the money)


Last fiddled with by LaurV on 2012-12-04 at 05:01
LaurV is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
mpi Two Machines Take longer than One for LA EdH Msieve 9 2016-12-10 20:53
AMD benchmarks NO LONGER needed for v26 Prime95 Software 11 2012-01-13 15:06
"...[take] longer than the age of the known universe to sdbardwick Lounge 11 2009-10-27 09:19
Longer-term plans? fivemack NFSNET Discussion 3 2008-02-21 19:26
RSA contests are no longer active :( ixfd64 Lounge 2 2007-06-09 08:55

All times are UTC. The time now is 23:38.

Tue May 18 23:38:46 UTC 2021 up 40 days, 18:19, 0 users, load averages: 1.51, 1.55, 1.59

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum has received and complied with 0 (zero) government requests for information.

Permission is granted to copy, distribute and/or modify this document under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.2 or any later version published by the Free Software Foundation.
A copy of the license is included in the FAQ.