Ukraine cries. Everyone is lying. UN expresses 'deep concerns'

[kruoli]

Originally Posted by Dr Sardonicus

The Russian claims of withdrawing troops from the Lyman area seem inconsistent with the Ukrainian claims they had them surrounded.

As far as I have understood the Ukrainian side, they do not had a full enclosure, but everything but a small stripe of land which they would have been able to attack easily. This is why the British militaries said the Russians had heavy losses when retreating: the Russians took the easily attackable route and have been shot at.

[Xyzzy]

Interesting video (with subtitles) from 2018:

[kriesel]

Warning, full run time indicated as 1 hour 22 seconds

[LaurV]

Re the gas pipe, it is not only me and Xilman saying it, there are bigger guys than us who think the same. Here is an example (however, we said it first ). You can google for more.

About naming countries, well, US, Norway, Germany, China (not mentioned in the video, but having a lot to gain too, more than the Arabian countries) are quite plausible. Germany more than others, think about public opinion pushing the government to buy russian gas when their dicks will froze in the winter..., right now they can't do such a thing anymore. Remember Ulysses burning the ships when they reached Troy to make sure they don't run home without a victory? Kind of the same here. Path of no return. However I don't think they did it. Neither the Norwegians, as one commentator said, they don't have the balls. But they are tricky sons of the snow... (we had dome Norwegian customers, hehe).

There are also a lot of private parties with interests there, and the means to accomplish it... (this includes Gazprom co-owners, who may be worried of the fact that the "state" will continue to sell the gas to Europe, at no profit for them - Europe will not pay due to war and sanctions - or will even completely nationalize the cottage). Here is some good related material...

Afraid of being wrong? Ha! Like, you mean, I wasn't wrong before, or what?

Re Ukraine in NATO, they themselves said it, that the application is "symbolic", because they are "far away", especially during (and after) the war, and it may take 10 years or more, but they just want to show to putin that they are not doing what they are told to do (i.e. "stay out of NATO") - these are Zelensky's words, but Anna explains it much nicer. You should follow her, she's cute. A bit naive tho, and a bit more emotional than realistic, but well ... youth...

[ldesnogu]

Originally Posted by LaurV

Re the gas pipe, it is not only me and Xilman saying it, there are bigger guys than us who think the same. Here is an example (however, we said it first ). You can google for more.

And he is bigger because he posts video on YouTube? Sorry but I don't watch videos, I prefer to read articles. Is there some written summary?

I'm more interested in why you think another country did it. Linking some video is not what I'm looking for, I can find them myself, and I can most likely find more than you that claim Russia is guilty (and that would not convince me 100%). They should be used as a support to your hypothesis. Or you should at least take the time to summarize what the video says. I value your argued opinion more than some random videos

About naming countries, well, US

Why according to you?

Norway

Why according to you? They already sell everything they can produce at high prices.

China (not mentioned in the video, but having a lot to gain too, more than the Arabian countries) are quite plausible.

Why according to you? China wants stability at all cost to sell their goods. They don't want to destabilize the world any further. So IMHO they should not be in the list of the suspects.

Germany more than others, think about public opinion pushing the government to buy russian gas when their dicks will froze in the winter..., right now they can't do such a thing anymore.

I don't think this holds given how Germany's government is acting at the moment: they move very cautiously. Also I'm not sure they've done any such thing (I mean undercover sabotage) for dozens of years and I don't think they'd take the risk of being caught doing that in those troubled times. (Off topic: France did and it was a spectacular failure; look for Rainbow Warrior).

There are also a lot of private parties with interests there, and the means to accomplish it... (this includes Gazprom co-owners, who may be worried of the fact that the "state" will continue to sell the gas to Europe, at no profit for them - Europe will not pay due to war and sanctions - or will even completely nationalize the cottage). Here is some good related material...

Another video I won't watch. Isn't there anything written you could link to?

The consensus seems to be that the operation needed some means only governments have (or I guess companies backed by governments such as Gazprom).

Afraid of being wrong? Ha! Like, you mean, I wasn't wrong before, or what?

No one should be afraid of being wrong, ever (and I could not say the contrary given how often I'm wrong ). As no one should be sure he's right in the kind of matter we are discussing. I point the finger at Russia, but I'm certainly not 100% convinced.

Re Ukraine in NATO, they themselves said it, that the application is "symbolic", because they are "far away", especially during (and after) the war, and it may take 10 years or more, but they just want to show to putin that they are not doing what they are told to do (i.e. "stay out of NATO") - these are Zelensky's words

I agree 100%. It's symbolic as many things Zelensky says. He's not stupid, he knows very well NATO won't accept Ukraine quickly, as he knew the EU wouldn't either. He's just showing the finger to the rat of the Kremlin: Ukraine is a Western civilization country. All I hope is that US/NATO will react if Putin uses nukes (not like Obama and the red line in Syria...) by massively sending planes and modern weapons.

but Anna explains it much nicer. You should follow her, she's cute. A bit naive tho, and a bit more emotional than realistic, but well ... youth...

Ha I see, you prefer watching videos because there's some nice looking girl

[Dr Sardonicus]

Meanwhile, back in the real world, Ukraine's armed forces broke through Russian lines in Kherson Oblast south of Zolota Balka, and are 20 miles further south at the banks of the Dnipro down to around Dudchany.

The Ukrainians are still advancing in Luhansk. The Russians continue advancing on Moscow.

[ldesnogu]

Originally Posted by Dr Sardonicus

The Russians continue advancing on Moscow.

You made my day It looks like strategic withdrawal is the maneuver they master the best.


Joke aside, I guess they will entrench somewhere behind the current front until more under equipped and poorly trained soldiers arrive to serve as cannon fodder.

[LaurV]

Originally Posted by ldesnogu

And he is bigger because he posts video on YouTube? Sorry but I don't watch videos, I prefer to read articles. Is there some written summary?
<some blah blah removed>
Ha I see, you prefer watching videos because there's some nice looking girl

He is bigger because of this. And he wrote books and articles about the shit happening now, years before it started happening. You could at least google some, before behaving like an ignorant refractory brick. You could also download an abstract or captions, if reading is preferred, but you would lose the fun. I posted YT videos because people prefer watching them, they contain more condensed information, etc (well, some, not all, most are rubbish, showing some old woman cry for the dead cat instead of showing you the real situation on the front line, but that is a different story, everybody is free to filter-feed the food he likes), and not because I don't like reading, etc. Actually, I spend about 90 minutes every day in car, commuting to work, and reading is not an option, you know? Listening, and occasionally watching (at red traffic lights ), is.

About the last paragraph... well... she is the age of my daughter, if that means anything...

[Dr Sardonicus]

Sweden has sent a submarine rescue ship to have a look-see at the damaged gas pipelines. Quick, better add Sweden to the fantasy suspect list!

Russia claims that the Nord Stream 2 pipeline B is undamaged, and could be used to pipe gas to Europe after being checked.

A video clip of a military transport train belonging to the 12th Main Directorate of the Russian MoD carrying a lot of possibly top-of-the-line BPM-97 APC's, and moving through central Russia toward Ukraine, has surfaced. The Directorate is associated with the Strategic Rocket Forces, so alarm bells are ringing.

Originally Posted by ldesnogu

<snip>
Joke aside, I guess they will entrench somewhere behind the current front until more under equipped and poorly trained soldiers arrive to serve as cannon fodder.

Or to serve as "barrier troops."

[ldesnogu]

Originally Posted by LaurV

He is bigger because of this. And he wrote books and articles about the shit happening now, years before it started happening. You could at least google some, before behaving like an ignorant refractory brick. You could also download an abstract or captions, if reading is preferred, but you would lose the fun. I posted YT videos because people prefer watching them, they contain more condensed information, etc (well, some, not all, most are rubbish, showing some old woman cry for the dead cat instead of showing you the real situation on the front line, but that is a different story, everybody is free to filter-feed the food he likes), and not because I don't like reading, etc. Actually, I spend about 90 minutes every day in car, commuting to work, and reading is not an option, you know? Listening, and occasionally watching (at red traffic lights ), is.

I think it's all a question of perception and habits. I prefer reading because it's so much faster. I have seen so many videos that were just a waste of time that I overreact when I'm presented only with videos as support for a discussion. But you convinced me, I will look at that video from William Spaniel (and I should have known better, you'd not have posted some rubbish video).

That being said you did not give your opinion, and if you prefer not to I will respect that, but it makes the discussion boring

About the last paragraph... well... she is the age of my daughter, if that means anything...

It was meant to be a joke, I hope you didn't get it wrong, and please accept my apologies if you felt offended

[Till]

Originally Posted by retina

Why are many here being so coy about naming countries?

Are you afraid of being wrong?

Cui bono? US, Poland, Ucraine, Norway, Netherlands, UK are my candidates.
I'ld rather exclude Norway.
People suggesting Germany have no clue. There is still some not too small fraction of people supporting the pipeline.

And neither Germany nor Russia should have an interest to destroy their own multi-billion dollar investment.