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Old 2020-09-15, 14:04   #23
Xyzzy
 
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Additionally, people are super interested in proving their patriotism.

Buying and displaying a flag, or standing for an anthem, or any of that silly stuff doesn't show anything.

If you are patriotic, serve the people. Take care of your neighbor. Help someone learn to read. Stuff like that.

Note that we didn't mention serving in the military. Sure, it can be a dangerous job. Sure it isn't easy. But ask yourself if anything the military has done in the last 50 years has improved the world. Our current military exists to enrich corporations.

People are real quick to jump on us for our "unpatriotic" views, until they find out we are a "decorated" veteran. Then they never know what to say. We know what to say, however, and that is that we are ashamed to have participated! Too bad it took us until too late to realize we were wrong.
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Old 2020-09-15, 14:30   #24
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Quote:
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But ask yourself if anything the military has done in the last 50 years has improved the world.
Not to totally disagree with your point, but Arpanet is a military program that has made life better for many. GPS is another. And there is some beneficial earth observation work that comes from the military/spook world.
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Old 2020-09-15, 16:05   #25
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Too bad our vote doesn't matter.
You can work to get this adopted by your state so that your vote will count in 2024.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Popular_Vote_Interstate_Compact
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Old 2020-09-16, 01:06   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xyzzy View Post
People are real quick to jump on us for our "unpatriotic" views, until they find out we are a "decorated" veteran. Then they never know what to say. We know what to say, however, and that is that we are ashamed to have participated! Too bad it took us until too late to realize we were wrong.
I assume you served in Vietnam. I assume you were not a policy maker.

I suppose you could have chosen to write yourself a ticket to Leavenworth by refusing to be drafted, or gotten an accommodating doctor to certify that you had bone spurs or something, but I don't hold it against you for not having done those things.

I knew a man who voted for LBJ in 1964, and a couple of years after that found himself slogging through rice paddies in Vietnam. He didn't vote again until at least 2000.

Not for the first time, I post the following passage from Act 4, Scene 1 of William Shakespeare's Henry V.

Quote:
KING HENRY V: I dare say you love him not so ill, to wish him here alone, howsoever you speak this to feel other men's minds: methinks I could not die any where so contented as in the king's company; his cause being just and his quarrel honourable.

WILLIAMS: That's more than we know.

BATES: Ay, or more than we should seek after; for we know enough, if we know we are the kings subjects: if his cause be wrong, our obedience to the king wipes the crime of it out of us.
It is not the soldiers who served who owe apologies for the unjust war they were called upon to fight. Certainly not the conscripted or enlisted men. They raised their hand and swore an oath. Call me quaint and old-fashioned, but to me, that means something. (That is the import of the above passage.)

If anything, it is the people of my generation who owe Vietnam veterans an apology. A lot of kids who were sent to Vietnam and survived, found themselves being called "baby-killers" and spit on, and unable to find a job. Shame on us.

The decision to wage war, and the military decisions on how to wage it, were made "above your pay grade."

I do not, therefore, hold you responsible for the policy or the military decisions pursuant thereto.

So to a veteran who found himself called to serve in what he now feels was an unjust war, I say, Welcome home. Thank you for making it back.
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Old 2020-09-16, 01:24   #27
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We feel old enough to be from that era, but we actually served in Iraq and Somalia. (FWIW, we fell victim to an economic draft.)

We signed up to be a medic. We remember watching some sort of propaganda movie about how the Army would send small teams to remote areas to recruit and train small armies. Their medics would set up a clinic and treat/immunize/educate the people. We had the idea that would be what we would be doing. Unfortunately, that was not the case.

If we were in charge, there would be a two year required service for every young person in America. You could serve in the military or in some sort of infrastructure project. Something that would teach you a vocational skill. You'd have to pass a PT test and take a few college classes. At the end of your service you would be eligible for the GI Bill and lifetime medical "insurance" with the VA.

All medical units in the military would deploy around the country to work under served areas. Additional medical units not assigned to the military could be created.

Think of all the things that could be fixed if we had millions of kids gainfully employed for the common good.

Benefits of our plan:

1) Everyone learns a useful skill.
2) Everyone can afford a state or community college.
3) Everyone has lifetime medical coverage that they earned.
4) America's infrastructure is fixed.
5) The money invested in the infrastructure fix boosts the economy.
6) Everyone learns about proper nutrition and physical fitness.

Within 50-60 years every person in the US would have medical care for life. The "slow" ramp up would allow the medical system to grow naturally as needed.
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Old 2020-09-16, 02:04   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xyzzy View Post
1) Everyone learns a useful skill.
2) Everyone can afford a state or community college.
3) Everyone has lifetime medical coverage that they earned.
4) America's infrastructure is fixed.
5) The money invested in the infrastructure fix boosts the economy.
6) Everyone learns about proper nutrition and physical fitness.
7) Everyone would gain some exposure to people from other walks of life.
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Old 2020-09-16, 03:32   #29
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Thank you, Mike. Well said.
And masser. Excellent point!

Last fiddled with by kladner on 2020-09-16 at 03:33
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Old 2020-09-16, 14:09   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xyzzy View Post
<snip>
If we were in charge, there would be a two year required service for every young person in America. You could serve in the military or in some sort of infrastructure project. Something that would teach you a vocational skill. You'd have to pass a PT test and take a few college classes. At the end of your service you would be eligible for the GI Bill and lifetime medical "insurance" with the VA.

All medical units in the military would deploy around the country to work under served areas. Additional medical units not assigned to the military could be created.

Think of all the things that could be fixed if we had millions of kids gainfully employed for the common good.

Benefits of our plan:

1) Everyone learns a useful skill.
2) Everyone can afford a state or community college.
3) Everyone has lifetime medical coverage that they earned.
4) America's infrastructure is fixed.
5) The money invested in the infrastructure fix boosts the economy.
6) Everyone learns about proper nutrition and physical fitness.

Within 50-60 years every person in the US would have medical care for life. The "slow" ramp up would allow the medical system to grow naturally as needed.
Sounds good!

Oh, wait. Allow the medical system to grow naturally? The AMA is calling on Line Two....
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Old 2020-09-23, 14:51   #31
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The photo below is from Louisville, KY. The entire downtown area looks this way, plus concrete jersey barriers everywhere. It looks like they are prepping for a war. Actually, it is about a grand jury decision in the Breonna Taylor case. I think many can pretty much guess what the result will be just by seeing all of this. The Louisville Metro PD officers who killed her will not be held responsible.
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Old 2020-09-23, 16:14   #32
kladner
 
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Old 2020-09-23, 18:29   #33
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One officer facing 3 charges from the grand jury. https://abc7news.com/louisville-stat...-time/6517412/

Last fiddled with by kriesel on 2020-09-23 at 18:30
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