COVID booster vaccination wavefront (2021-2022)

Dr Sardonicus · 2021-10-21, 15:26

Coronavirus (COVID-19) Update: FDA Takes Additional Actions on the Use of a Booster Dose for COVID-19 Vaccines

Today, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration took action to expand the use of a booster dose for COVID-19 vaccines in eligible populations. The agency is amending the emergency use authorizations (EUA) for COVID-19 vaccines to allow for the use of a single booster dose as follows:

The use of a single booster dose of the Moderna COVID-19 Vaccine that may be administered at least 6 months after completion of the primary series to individuals:
- 65 years of age and older
- 18 through 64 years of age at high risk of severe COVID-19
- 18 through 64 years of age with frequent institutional or occupational exposure to SARS-CoV-2
The use of a single booster dose of the Janssen (Johnson and Johnson) COVID-19 Vaccine may be administered at least 2 months after completion of the single-dose primary regimen to individuals 18 years of age and older.
The use of each of the available COVID-19 vaccines as a heterologous (or "mix and match") booster dose in eligible individuals following completion of primary vaccination with a different available COVID-19 vaccine.
To clarify that a single booster dose of the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine may be administered at least 6 months after completion of the primary series to individuals 18 through 64 years of age with frequent institutional or occupational exposure to SARS-CoV-2.

Batalov · 2021-10-21, 17:06

If/when you will actually receive your booster dose of a COVID vaccine, would you please add the month to the stats?

(this poll is anonymous)

P.S. Here is the 2020-21 original wavefront poll

frmky · 2021-10-21, 18:56

Can you add a poll entry for Sept 2021 or earlier? I don't fit in any of the listed options.

Batalov · 2021-10-21, 19:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by frmky

Can you add a poll entry for Sept 2021 or earlier? I don't fit in any of the listed options.

Yes, for sure! Good for you!

paulunderwood · 2021-10-28, 14:42

I have just had my 3rd shot of Pfizer -- the booster -- and not feeling any adverse symptoms yet...

firejuggler · 2021-10-28, 19:37

What about the pills (by Merck) that are announced for december, I think?
These *could* replace the vaccine

Dr Sardonicus · 2021-10-28, 20:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by firejuggler

What about the pills (by Merck) that are announced for december, I think?
These *could* replace the vaccine

It won't replace a preventative vaccine. The drug (Molnupiravir) is an antiviral that inhibits virus replication. It is for use in already-infected people who aren't (yet) seriously ill. Merck applied around October 11 for EUA.

The FDA's advisory panel is scheduled to meet November 30 to consider the application, so it is unlikely EUA will come before December 1.

EDIT: Back on topic - I forgot to mention earlier, I got the Moderna booster on October 26^th. I soon experienced some soreness around the injection site.

Next morning I felt achy and a bit feverish, but those symptoms largely dissipated soon after I arose, except for a bit of soreness and stiffness near the injection site. Using my arms to get some stuff done later on pretty much worked out the kinks.

Batalov · 2021-10-28, 20:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by firejuggler

What about the pills (by Merck) that are announced for december, I think?
These *could* replace the vaccine

Pills are doing nothing if one doesn't have covid - they are for treatment.
They will help disease progression and the diseased person (a sampled person from population) might die less frequently - but it will not be a walk in the park. Do not get sick; do not wait to get sick either.

Vaccination is not a disease but prepares the immune system to fight off the arriving infection.

Hypothetical comparison with tetanus (* I am not a specialist in tetanus ): Not getting a vaccine for tetanus just because there is a drug for when one will have tetanus - is not good. Consider that with that drug the person might survive but will have constant neuropathic pains in legs for the rest of their life, or stay alive and paralyzed? Not a good thing.

Uncwilly · 2021-10-28, 20:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by paulunderwood

I have just had my 3rd shot of Pfizer -- the booster -- and not feeling any adverse symptoms yet...

A relative that is above 75 and had both doses of an mRNA, then got a case of COVID-19 got their booster yesterday. Apparently their immune system remembered it and mounted a vigorous response. They had to go to bed early. But, for them it was much preferred to the infection.

frmky · 2021-10-28, 22:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Batalov

Pills are doing nothing if one doesn't have covid - they are for treatment.

It is being tested for post-exposure prophylaxis for those with a known or suspected contact. It's not being tested for pre-exposure prophylaxis, but others are. Although a demonstrated safe and effective vaccine seems preferable to medications.

Batalov · 2021-10-29, 17:30

Let me try another parallel (similar to tetanus).

I had shingles ~5 years ago and it was quite painful. The nerves inflame and misfire deep inside of you - so you don't even know what exactly it is; you start thinking that your organs, stomach or liver are failing, and it is hard to function because it really hurts. So - when you get it, there is a therapy, but one only gets it by prescription, hence a visit to a doctor. And the antiviral pills are huge (1 gram twice a day); and they have some side-effects. But even with the inevitable doctor visit delay etc, -- do these pills work right away? Hell no! I was in equal pain for another 2-3 days. There was also a statistical chance that pain would stay, but I got lucky. It went away and never returned.

So, a bit later-- When I heard that shingles vaccine was approved I got it (even though it does hurt in itself, but nothing compared to real shingles - some 101F fever and associated fatigue and headache). It is incidentally same (but much smaller dose) as vaccine for kids for chickenpox. The virus is the same.

Similar here, with COVID versus a COVID dissident battle:
Step 1. you don't do anything. Step 2. You get COVID. Step 3. It will have to be diagnosed, twice (to rule out false positives); time passes. Step 4. you start taking the Merck pill. And you will need frequent blood tests to check your liver function. Step 5. After a couple days you get better.
Between steps 2 and 5 a few days will have passed, the viral load will have done some damage to your brain and heart, and also you may have gotten side effects from the pill. Much better to avoid the whole thing.

Drugs are a transient agent; most of them are relatively simple molecules (compared to immune complexes which are huge); most of them get converted by your body to a circulating form of itself (lose the salt which balances them in the solid pill, an perhaps lose some sidechain), go around you whole body in the blood stream (even where they don't need to go), and then they get further split apart and leave your body. If you take the Merck pill for a week, and then get COVID two weeks later - your body will remember nothing of the drug.

In contrast, vaccine is a punching bag that gets presented to immune system, which then learns to recognize it and punch it to bits and then the vaccine is gone just like a drug. But the immune system remembers.
Now, why the booster? Immune system has memory subsystem and active subsystem. Active subsystem is ready to fight (and get more troops to fight) within hours. Memory system has to match the new enemy to the old catalog, prepare the cells and then start fighting, in a matter of a day or two (the troops have to be built). For two days the body will have to suffer the virus and some damage will be done.
And if you do the booster - you wake up the army which will stay in tents for several more months then will disband. Then - next booster.

There are plans (in a year or two) to pre-mix covid shot with yearly flu shot cocktail of four flu strains of the year.(they don't call flu vaccine quadrivalent for nothing). Then it will become a pentavalent vaccine and it will become a word (well, there is another one already now).

View Poll Results: I _actually_ received my booster COVID vaccine dose in...
Sep 2021 (or earlier)	6	11.32%
Oct 2021	6	11.32%
Nov 2021	11	20.75%
Dec 2021	14	26.42%
Jan 2022	6	11.32%
Feb 2022	2	3.77%
Mar 2022	0	0%
Apr 2022	0	0%
May 2022	0	0%
Planning not to boost vaccination/not to vaccinate	8	15.09%
Voters: 53. You may not vote on this poll

2021-10-21, 15:26	#1
Dr Sardonicus Feb 2017 Nowhere 3·5²·83 Posts	COVID booster vaccination wavefront (2021-2022) Coronavirus (COVID-19) Update: FDA Takes Additional Actions on the Use of a Booster Dose for COVID-19 Vaccines Today, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration took action to expand the use of a booster dose for COVID-19 vaccines in eligible populations. The agency is amending the emergency use authorizations (EUA) for COVID-19 vaccines to allow for the use of a single booster dose as follows: The use of a single booster dose of the Moderna COVID-19 Vaccine that may be administered at least 6 months after completion of the primary series to individuals: 65 years of age and older 18 through 64 years of age at high risk of severe COVID-19 18 through 64 years of age with frequent institutional or occupational exposure to SARS-CoV-2 The use of a single booster dose of the Janssen (Johnson and Johnson) COVID-19 Vaccine may be administered at least 2 months after completion of the single-dose primary regimen to individuals 18 years of age and older. The use of each of the available COVID-19 vaccines as a heterologous (or "mix and match") booster dose in eligible individuals following completion of primary vaccination with a different available COVID-19 vaccine. To clarify that a single booster dose of the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine may be administered at least 6 months after completion of the primary series to individuals 18 through 64 years of age with frequent institutional or occupational exposure to SARS-CoV-2.

2021-10-21, 17:06	#2
Batalov "Serge" Mar 2008 Phi(4,2^7658614+1)/2 2²×5×503 Posts	COVID booster vaccination wavefront (2021) If/when you will actually receive your booster dose of a COVID vaccine, would you please add the month to the stats? (this poll is anonymous) P.S. Here is the 2020-21 original wavefront poll

2021-10-28, 19:37	#6
firejuggler "Vincent" Apr 2010 Over the rainbow 2²·7·103 Posts	What about the pills (by Merck) that are announced for december, I think? These could replace the vaccine Last fiddled with by firejuggler on 2021-10-28 at 19:39

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2021-10-21, 18:56	#3
frmky Jul 2003 So Cal A28₁₆ Posts	Can you add a poll entry for Sept 2021 or earlier? I don't fit in any of the listed options.

2021-10-28, 14:42	#5
paulunderwood Sep 2002 Database er0rr 5×29×31 Posts	I have just had my 3rd shot of Pfizer -- the booster -- and not feeling any adverse symptoms yet...

2021-10-29, 17:30	#11
Batalov "Serge" Mar 2008 Phi(4,2^7658614+1)/2 2²·5·503 Posts	Let me try another parallel (similar to tetanus). I had shingles ~5 years ago and it was quite painful. The nerves inflame and misfire deep inside of you - so you don't even know what exactly it is; you start thinking that your organs, stomach or liver are failing, and it is hard to function because it really hurts. So - when you get it, there is a therapy, but one only gets it by prescription, hence a visit to a doctor. And the antiviral pills are huge (1 gram twice a day); and they have some side-effects. But even with the inevitable doctor visit delay etc, -- do these pills work right away? Hell no! I was in equal pain for another 2-3 days. There was also a statistical chance that pain would stay, but I got lucky. It went away and never returned. So, a bit later-- When I heard that shingles vaccine was approved I got it (even though it does hurt in itself, but nothing compared to real shingles - some 101F fever and associated fatigue and headache). It is incidentally same (but much smaller dose) as vaccine for kids for chickenpox. The virus is the same. Similar here, with COVID versus a COVID dissident battle: Step 1. you don't do anything. Step 2. You get COVID. Step 3. It will have to be diagnosed, twice (to rule out false positives); time passes. Step 4. you start taking the Merck pill. And you will need frequent blood tests to check your liver function. Step 5. After a couple days you get better. Between steps 2 and 5 a few days will have passed, the viral load will have done some damage to your brain and heart, and also you may have gotten side effects from the pill. Much better to avoid the whole thing. Drugs are a transient agent; most of them are relatively simple molecules (compared to immune complexes which are huge); most of them get converted by your body to a circulating form of itself (lose the salt which balances them in the solid pill, an perhaps lose some sidechain), go around you whole body in the blood stream (even where they don't need to go), and then they get further split apart and leave your body. If you take the Merck pill for a week, and then get COVID two weeks later - your body will remember nothing of the drug. In contrast, vaccine is a punching bag that gets presented to immune system, which then learns to recognize it and punch it to bits and then the vaccine is gone just like a drug. But the immune system remembers. Now, why the booster? Immune system has memory subsystem and active subsystem. Active subsystem is ready to fight (and get more troops to fight) within hours. Memory system has to match the new enemy to the old catalog, prepare the cells and then start fighting, in a matter of a day or two (the troops have to be built). For two days the body will have to suffer the virus and some damage will be done. And if you do the booster - you wake up the army which will stay in tents for several more months then will disband. Then - next booster. There are plans (in a year or two) to pre-mix covid shot with yearly flu shot cocktail of four flu strains of the year.(they don't call flu vaccine quadrivalent for nothing). Then it will become a pentavalent vaccine and it will become a word (well, there is another one already now).