Anyone know Quechua? - Page 3

Dobri · 2022-07-23, 20:33

Quillaka is the name of one of the Aymara tribes.
Perhaps the "s" in Quillacas is a Spanish suffix and the use of "c" instead of "k" is also of Spanish origin.
One could listen to a shortened version of the song, see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGZHT-ujueg,
to hear an "h" consonant (which could be written as "j" in Spanish) instead:
"Tata Quillaka-j-man-pu-ni".

kruoli · 2022-07-23, 20:37

As "Quillacas" seems to be part of this track's title, I would have assumed that OP has used the spelling from the CD cover. The link he gave also supports this theory.

Dobri · 2022-07-23, 21:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by kruoli

As "Quillacas" seems to be part of this track's title, I would have assumed that OP has used the spelling from the CD cover. The link he gave also supports this theory.

Indeed, the OP provides a link to a traditional version of the song performed by the Peruvian band Inkari where an "s" sound for "Quillacas" can be heard.
However, Bolivian performers tend to produce an 'h' sound instead (Quillakaj) and, as the story of the Señor de Quillacas originates from Bolivia, this could potentially give a small clue about the precise translation of one line of the song.

Dobri · 2022-07-24, 07:04

The following single paragraph is translated from Spanish language and provided below for scholarly purposes:

“2. The miracle in the cult of the Lord of Quillacas
Legend has it that at some point between the 16th and 17th centuries, a group of muleteers crossed the landscapes of Belén, near the town of Sevaruyo, in the Paria pampas, in Oruro. Among them was an Argentine who took his mules to sell either to the Huari fair or to the Potosí fair, depending on the version. Camped at night they began to drink, and fell asleep due to drunkenness. The next morning, when this Argentine muleteer woke up he found himself alone, abandoned by his companions and without a trace of his mules. He set about looking for his animals, fearing the worst, and he went about it for three days. He climbed the San Juan hill to see if he could see them from its height (with its 3,912 meters above sea level, the San Juan Mallku hill is an excellent viewpoint from where one can see the Márquez River and the Blanco River, Lake Poopó, and the immense Quillacas pampa with its sandbanks), but nothing. In despair, he burst into tears. After a while he noticed the presence of an old man with a white beard who was watching him sitting on some nearby rocks. “Don't cry anymore –he told him– and look for your herd behind the hill; there you will find it drinking at the stream.” He did so, and he found his mules grazing peacefully where the old man had indicated. The muleteer returned to thank him, but on his rocks he found only a cross with the image of Christ, the old man's clothes and chuspa (a small woven bag, to hang around the neck, where coca leaves are kept, chuspas are exchanged in ritual celebrations among those present as a socialized expression of sharing). He took everything to the nearby town of Quillacas (founded on May 20, 1601 by the visitor José de la Vega Alvarado, the town of Quillacas is currently the head of the Quillacas Sanctuary Municipality, the second municipality of the Avaroa province, in the Bolivian department of Oruro) and continued on his way. He sold the mules, got good money and returned to his home, but all the while he kept dreaming of the old man and the crucified Christ. He consulted a ritual specialist who advised him to return to Quillacas and build a sanctuary in honor of the image. He insisted on the task, but the works of the temple continually collapsed. Then another wise man advised him to make the sanctuary with a cross plan. He did so, and the works were completed without any problem; a sanctuary with a Latin cross floor plan, a wide vault and a large atrium provided with pools, which is considered today among the jewels of colonial architecture in Bolivia.”

Reference:
Francisco M. Gil García, El anciano santo del cerro y su cruz. Apuntes sobre el culto al Señor de Quillacas, Revista Española de Antropología Americana, vol. 45, núm. 2, 517-532, 2015.

Dobri · 2022-07-25, 20:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Sardonicus

...
Bendicionita boanzu

Kuchay michangis (michakis) pichispa
Kuki michista savespa
...

This is more likely
"Bendición-inta quwasun

Qucha nincha qespichispa
Kuti-y ninchista saqespa".

Dr Sardonicus · 2022-07-26, 14:18

I would like to thank Dobri for his contributions to this thread.

The translations appear to make good sense in the context of the song which I'd already found.

I'm not sure why the consonants (and in some cases the division into words) seem to be different than what they sounded like to me, but then I don't know how Quechua is sung. Especially (as has been pointed out previously) the song originated in Bolivia and the version I heard was sung by a Peruvian group.

I note in this regard that there are some standard misconstruings of songs in English. There's an old Beatles song which begins, "One day, you'll wake to find I'm gone" that sounds like "One day, you'll wake to find a gun." Others are the subjects of jokes. These include the character "Round John Virgin" in the carol "Silent Night" and the phrase in a church hymn "Gladly the cross I'd bear" which is misunderstood to be an animal, "Gladly the cross-eyed bear."

I doubt there would be any copyright issues in translating the lyrics, since it seems it is a folk song. The lyrics are almost certainly in the public domain.

Copying the track by Inkari without permission, though, would be a copyright violation.

Dobri · 2022-07-26, 17:42

I was able to construct the distinct words only after listening to the voice of a female singer from Venezuela,
see https://soundcloud.com/gustavocolina...lacas-folclore.
The higher frequencies of a female voice allow one to hear clearly the unique Quechua sounds.
Then the online search helps figure out how to write down each word (root+suffixes).
Perhaps there are more minor adjustments to be made concerning the use of 'k' or 'q', "-spa" or "-sta", etc.

xilman · 2022-07-27, 18:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Sardonicus

There's an old Beatles song which begins, "One day, you'll wake to find I'm gone" that sounds like "One day, you'll wake to find a gun."

Generically known as Mondegreens.

"The girl with colitis goes by" is another by the Fab Four.

Is this the real life, is this just Battersea?
Beelzebub has a special sideboard for me.
Spare him his life for his warm sausages.
...
BoRap is full of them.

2022-07-23, 20:33	#23
Dobri "ม้าไฟ" May 2018 1CC₁₆ Posts	Quillaka is the name of one of the Aymara tribes. Perhaps the "s" in Quillacas is a Spanish suffix and the use of "c" instead of "k" is also of Spanish origin. One could listen to a shortened version of the song, see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGZHT-ujueg, to hear an "h" consonant (which could be written as "j" in Spanish) instead: "Tata Quillaka-j-man-pu-ni".

2022-07-23, 20:37	#24
kruoli "Oliver" Sep 2017 Porta Westfalica, DE 1,321 Posts	As "Quillacas" seems to be part of this track's title, I would have assumed that OP has used the spelling from the CD cover. The link he gave also supports this theory.

2022-07-24, 07:04	#26
Dobri "ม้าไฟ" May 2018 2²×5×23 Posts	The following single paragraph is translated from Spanish language and provided below for scholarly purposes: “2. The miracle in the cult of the Lord of Quillacas Legend has it that at some point between the 16th and 17th centuries, a group of muleteers crossed the landscapes of Belén, near the town of Sevaruyo, in the Paria pampas, in Oruro. Among them was an Argentine who took his mules to sell either to the Huari fair or to the Potosí fair, depending on the version. Camped at night they began to drink, and fell asleep due to drunkenness. The next morning, when this Argentine muleteer woke up he found himself alone, abandoned by his companions and without a trace of his mules. He set about looking for his animals, fearing the worst, and he went about it for three days. He climbed the San Juan hill to see if he could see them from its height (with its 3,912 meters above sea level, the San Juan Mallku hill is an excellent viewpoint from where one can see the Márquez River and the Blanco River, Lake Poopó, and the immense Quillacas pampa with its sandbanks), but nothing. In despair, he burst into tears. After a while he noticed the presence of an old man with a white beard who was watching him sitting on some nearby rocks. “Don't cry anymore –he told him– and look for your herd behind the hill; there you will find it drinking at the stream.” He did so, and he found his mules grazing peacefully where the old man had indicated. The muleteer returned to thank him, but on his rocks he found only a cross with the image of Christ, the old man's clothes and chuspa (a small woven bag, to hang around the neck, where coca leaves are kept, chuspas are exchanged in ritual celebrations among those present as a socialized expression of sharing). He took everything to the nearby town of Quillacas (founded on May 20, 1601 by the visitor José de la Vega Alvarado, the town of Quillacas is currently the head of the Quillacas Sanctuary Municipality, the second municipality of the Avaroa province, in the Bolivian department of Oruro) and continued on his way. He sold the mules, got good money and returned to his home, but all the while he kept dreaming of the old man and the crucified Christ. He consulted a ritual specialist who advised him to return to Quillacas and build a sanctuary in honor of the image. He insisted on the task, but the works of the temple continually collapsed. Then another wise man advised him to make the sanctuary with a cross plan. He did so, and the works were completed without any problem; a sanctuary with a Latin cross floor plan, a wide vault and a large atrium provided with pools, which is considered today among the jewels of colonial architecture in Bolivia.” Reference: Francisco M. Gil García, El anciano santo del cerro y su cruz. Apuntes sobre el culto al Señor de Quillacas, Revista Española de Antropología Americana, vol. 45, núm. 2, 517-532, 2015.

2022-07-26, 14:18	#28
Dr Sardonicus Feb 2017 Nowhere 1847₁₆ Posts	I would like to thank Dobri for his contributions to this thread. The translations appear to make good sense in the context of the song which I'd already found. I'm not sure why the consonants (and in some cases the division into words) seem to be different than what they sounded like to me, but then I don't know how Quechua is sung. Especially (as has been pointed out previously) the song originated in Bolivia and the version I heard was sung by a Peruvian group. I note in this regard that there are some standard misconstruings of songs in English. There's an old Beatles song which begins, "One day, you'll wake to find I'm gone" that sounds like "One day, you'll wake to find a gun." Others are the subjects of jokes. These include the character "Round John Virgin" in the carol "Silent Night" and the phrase in a church hymn "Gladly the cross I'd bear" which is misunderstood to be an animal, "Gladly the cross-eyed bear." I doubt there would be any copyright issues in translating the lyrics, since it seems it is a folk song. The lyrics are almost certainly in the public domain. Copying the track by Inkari without permission, though, would be a copyright violation.

2022-07-26, 17:42	#29
Dobri "ม้าไฟ" May 2018 1CC₁₆ Posts	I was able to construct the distinct words only after listening to the voice of a female singer from Venezuela, see https://soundcloud.com/gustavocolina...lacas-folclore. The higher frequencies of a female voice allow one to hear clearly the unique Quechua sounds. Then the online search helps figure out how to write down each word (root+suffixes). Perhaps there are more minor adjustments to be made concerning the use of 'k' or 'q', "-spa" or "-sta", etc.