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 2005-02-03, 00:56 #1 crash893     Sep 2002 23×37 Posts 1 buck an hour http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/4229021.stm intresting read i wonder how we get in on that action?
 2005-02-03, 02:33 #2 geoff     Mar 2003 New Zealand 13·89 Posts It sounds like $1 gets you 1 processor hour, which seems very expensive. Buying a new P4 and throwing it away after one year would probably work out at less than$0.10 per hour including electricity.
 2005-02-03, 06:31 #3 Peter Nelson     Oct 2004 232 Posts Processing for money and other motives, but mostly money :-; You think $1 an hour expensive? Well, don't forget you have to pay for the glossy brochure and salespeople to clinch the deal, the prestigious office for the client to visit, appearances and stands (and drinks) at trade shows, and since Sun's grid computing system was based on Solaris, probably licenses too. I'm told IBM undercut Sun with their On Demand Computing solution. But IBM are not that cheap either - they still have to pay someone to send out the bill and the debt collectors to go and collect the payment, and the lawyers to make sure they aren't sued for negligence (and to write the non-disclosure agreement), and the office cleaner, and the refills for the coffee machine, and the embossed pens. If you want to sell time from a pile of PCs in your spare bedroom, you may need a little marketing effort:-) Pens with a trendy dot com logo on are an absolute minimum, I would think. If you don't want to employ a salesforce, there is a distributed computing system called http://www.ubero.com They put your pc to use for the usual things like drug finding, proteins, financial modelling etc BUT there's a difference.... They MIGHT pay you! Apparently, if their client pays them to use the computing capacity you can get a share of the money for having contributed. I don't know if anyone got paid yet (to your paypal account) or if they work mostly on "charity" cancer cures and are looking to sign up real customers once they have enough PC owners participating. This might be a way for GIMPS to encourage participation by doing something similar. Aside from GIMPS prize money how about someone rich sends George a lot of money then he shares it out based on our primenet stats. This would reward all participants not just the lucky few, kinda balancing payouts. Maybe 1 cent per P90 cpu hour contributed? (A bargain compared to Sun) We just need to find a rich donor hmmmm how about Bill Gates? Anyway, remember the extra electricity consumed by a fully utilised processor/PC is going to cost you (or your employer) a little extra money. You could participate in a distributed effort where either the prize is shared among participants, or donated to a charity voted for by participants, or one participant wins big money (like gimps). You then have a 1/n chance of being the lucky winner if all participate equally, or by adding more PCs you can maximise your chances or payout. Although the odds of being the winner are small, when I studied a little Game Theory, there was a rationalised case to support gambling on the lottery. That was if you bought a ticket for £1 each week you would hardly miss it (maybe have entertainment of seeing if you won in return) but it would not change your life significantly to participate as opposed to not. If you actually won however many millions, it would change your life a lot. Although I don't condone gambling (except in the sense of being in business which is a series of risks) I could see the argument. If you're interested in money rather than fun with your computing, it is worth comparing the odds in each lottery and the size of the big jackpot. eg. would you find a ten million digit prime using GIMPS? eg. would you get a smaller share for a smaller prime using GIMPS? eg. would doing RC5-72 with distributed.net be quicker. eg. can you prove the Riemann Hypothesis for$1m maybe ZetaGrid.net or some other challenges. Sometimes more than one effort attacks the same problem, so you might want to estimate which approach will solve the challenge first. Most gamblers would only view their winnings in the light of what they had to put in or lose first in order to get them. Often we ignore the costs of participation in a project. eg opportunity cost (could be in a different project), time cost (of checking stats twice every hour LOL), financial cost(electricity, premature deceased CPU, desire for upgrade lifecycle), and emotional cost (alienation of spouse, partner, kids, dog). For some lamers, their choice of project is influenced by whether they get a pretty screensaver of molecules (Folding@home) or graphs(seti@home). For us purists, such aesthetics are unneccessary frivolity, and George has written a great client for GIMPS in what we might call the "minimalist" style because every cycle counts. I quite like the ability to use it over textmode SSH (or remotely from Windows using Putty). The other problem with typical projects is because the people running them get the processing free they do not value it as highly so can't be bothered to optimise code (like George does), or fully debug it (they just write off work by a bad version and do the same tests again). If they had to pay Sun's rates they would think twice before wasting cpu time. I'd be seriously interested if you hear of any computing work for money which could be addressed on a fee basis and will gladly undercut Sun's $1/cpu hour :-) This would have to be capable of being addressed on a Linux cluster, and not quite as much work as the clusters in the Top 500 supercomputer list are capable of (yet). Additionally, if a mathematician can calculate the rough odds of "winning" times payback of the leading popular distributed projects for comparison that would also be cool. If you're not a statistician you can still post estimated odds which would be good for a laugh. In the past I've been a participant in distributed.net, then installed (I say this cos it didn't run long) folding@home, and now have quite a few machines on GIMPS which I like. The benefit is not purely monetary. GIMPS also offers a little fame if you find a big prime. I doubt the pharmaceutical companies would name their new wonder drug after you just cos your pc found them a goldmine (license to print money) for free! And I don't think they will give away that vaccine or cure for cancer free just because you paid your electricity bill for them as a contribution. They'll have it patented before you can say "kilowatt hour". 2005-02-03, 07:33 #4 Peter Nelson Oct 2004 10000100012 Posts How much per hour? Quote:  Originally Posted by geoff It sounds like$1 gets you 1 processor hour, which seems very expensive. Buying a new P4 and throwing it away after one year would probably work out at less than $0.10 per hour including electricity. Actually you'd make about$330 profit charging that.
8766 hours/year * $0.10/hour =$876 income

based on annual electricity measured on my P4 £75 UK money (at 5 pence per kilowatt hour) which converts to approx $40 USD. Dell Dimension 3000 website special$500 with XP home.
XP home will get erased immediately if I have anything to do with it, LOL
Remember we don't need keyboard/mouse/speakers/monitor/DVD writer or probably hard drive either so a home build will save even more (or we might try buying on ebay).

$500+$40 = $540 =$540 over the year = cost $0.062 per hour Over 2 years the same machine would use double the electricity but you wouldn't have to buy it again, so$500+$40+$40 = $580 =$290 per year = cost $0.033 /hour And over 3 years$500+$40+$40+$40 =$620 = $207 per year = cost$0.024 / hour

So if you could sign people up at $0.10 /hour you'd have quite a big gross profit, and$1/hour starts to look a little steep (even for a dot com). Then again, maybe I left out the cost of commercial floorspace and air-conditioning.

And if you're really scrooge, after 3 years you could sell the obsolete system to a "student" as "internet-ready" for at least \$100. You could tell them it's still great for trial factoring :-;

In the corporate world you would offset the hardware depreciation against profit for tax purposes or in the USA get a tax rebate for giving it to a school or something. So effectively you're only paying for the electricity and the interest on the money you used to buy the PC until it pays for itself.

This deal is sounding better all the time LOL.

2005-02-03, 13:10   #5
leifbk

May 2004
Oslo, Norway

23·3·5 Posts

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Peter Nelson This might be a way for GIMPS to encourage participation by doing something similar. Aside from GIMPS prize money how about someone rich sends George a lot of money then he shares it out based on our primenet stats. This would reward all participants not just the lucky few, kinda balancing payouts. Maybe 1 cent per P90 cpu hour contributed? (A bargain compared to Sun) We just need to find a rich donor hmmmm how about Bill Gates?
His first condition would probably be to have the Linux client immediately withdrawn from further participation in the project

Thank you for a singularly well-written posting, Peter. I found it both funny and thought-provoking at the same time.

regards, Leif.

2005-02-03, 16:13   #6
Peter Nelson

Oct 2004

232 Posts

Quote:
 Originally Posted by leifbk His first condition would probably be to have the Linux client immediately withdrawn from further participation in the project regards, Leif.
ROFL

I'd seen that one coming, and obviously Big Bill could hardly be expected to sponsor people using Linux, so we'd have to get Novell to pay us for our Suse boxen, and maybe IBM (because they like Linux too and its cheaper than running a flashy trade show stand).

Hey, maybe Novell would up the stakes for people who wear their red Netware 4 certification tiepin prominently AND have their Suse 9.2 green box under their arm while being photographed as prime discoverers.

How's that for customer loyalty? (over 10 years).

PS. Glad you liked my post.

 2009-06-18, 01:45 #7 jasong     "Jason Goatcher" Mar 2005 3×7×167 Posts Has anyone ever tried to convince someone to crunch for them for money? A while back I convinced someone to crunch Riesel Sieve for me according to the points they added to my account. It was something like a penny for every 200 points or something, and it was a few years ago. Then again, maybe it was Find-a-Drug that was the project, not sure. One thing that I think is important to note, and this something I want the companies with the bucks to hand out to consider, is that the people crunching don't necessarily have to make a profit to be attracted by the money. Someone might increase their allowed budget for a computer if they know they can get part of the money back by giving computer time to a company. Although, if more than about 50% of the money earned crunching goes to the electric bill, you either need a new hobby or a new computer. I, for one, wouldn't want to crunch in California if I had to pay those electricity bills. It's between 1/4th and 1/5th as much in Arkansas, a good deal even if you factor in the differing average incomes.

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