mersenneforum.org PS3 programmers(program conversion for pay?)
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 2007-12-15, 06:44 #1 jasong     "Jason Goatcher" Mar 2005 5·701 Posts PS3 programmers(program conversion for pay?) This thread is mainly an act of sounding out feelers, it's not meant to be construed as a contract unless I specifically state otherwise. As you probably know, the PS3 is making inroads in the projects of Folding@Home and the two versions, I think there are two, are the PS3 OGR client, BOINC and the "pure" client. From what I've heard, there are plenty of other things(I'm specifically thinking of Distributed Computing) that the PS3 can crunch(yes, I know it can play games). My personal favorites are LLR and ecm(not sure if this would automatically include p-1). I was wondering what it would take to convince a capable person to consider porting one of these programs? I know there are people that would enjoy the challenge and just need a little nudge. I've been considering the nudge, or carrot, if you like that metaphor better. What I'm wondering is if people simply need to be told who to beg, since the right person for the job might not be a DCer. Or if someone who wants to do it needs an incentive. A PS3 at WalMart costs about $450, including tax, I'm highballing it a bit so we can hopefully agree on a maximum cost to think of. Now, with the projects that have already been ported, an equivalent cruncher would probably be at least$2,000, I believe that's a lowball, though I may be wrong. So, assuming a person buys a PS3 just for crunching and they know exactly what they want to crunch, you could say that they've saved at least $1000 on their purchase. Well, if their PS3 can crunch other projects that they're interested in, that increases the value of the PS3 even more. So this is what I'm considering: Maybe a programmer could come forward and offer to work on a project, basically saying what programs they're proficient enough to port, and say how much they'd want in payment in order to really commit to the job. It would be the amount needed to shoehorn it in as neatly as possible(yes, I know that sounds contradictory). People who have PS3s would say how much they're willing to offer in order to get that ported. So, if somebody said they'd do an LLR port for$5000, then that would be the offer. So the people who wanted to run LLR on their PS3s might go to a simple webpage and say how much they're willing to pay, for a $5000 offer, you'd probably want to get the promises of payment up to about$6000. It might also be a good idea if all the PS3 users involved had to pay a specific amount that they couldn't decide themselves for the privilege. I support open source software, but sometimes people need to hand some money to the programmers so they can eat, it doesn't invalidate the open source movement to give em a bit of money. Okay, I've been rambling a bit and need to get up less than 6 hours from now, so I'm temporarily going to cut this short. I probably won't be back to look at this thread for about 14 hours but I'm hoping for a positive response. :) Last fiddled with by WraithX on 2016-02-15 at 05:09
 2007-12-15, 07:12 #2 retina Undefined     "The unspeakable one" Jun 2006 My evil lair 32·653 Posts Okay, for USD1Meg I'll port any program in any language on any hardware into any other language on any other hardware. Conditions are: 1- you must provide original source code (open source or not, I don't care) 2- the task must not be expected to take more than one year with 10 programmers working on it full time 3- you provide all details of OS and hardware (CPU, RAM etc.) of both source and target systems 4- the task must not be illegal in any way, includes copyrights, patents and things 5- support is separate and not covered under the initial porting 6- half payment is made up-front and remainder upon completion 7- I can chose to decline any task without having to give a reason Accept?
2007-12-15, 21:06   #3
jasong

"Jason Goatcher"
Mar 2005

5·701 Posts

Quote:
 Originally Posted by retina Okay, for USD1Meg I'll port any program in any language on any hardware into any other language on any other hardware. Conditions are: 1- you must provide original source code (open source or not, I don't care) 2- the task must not be expected to take more than one year with 10 programmers working on it full time 3- you provide all details of OS and hardware (CPU, RAM etc.) of both source and target systems 4- the task must not be illegal in any way, includes copyrights, patents and things 5- support is separate and not covered under the initial porting 6- half payment is made up-front and remainder upon completion 7- I can chose to decline any task without having to give a reason Accept?
Okay, a $1,000,000 is the initial offer. If this is a good idea I've come up with, I suspect that someone will offer a lower bid. Btw, I had another thought while I was at work. The source code be ported, but some key component of the package, possibly involving network access, could have it's source code suppressed. People could download the free stuff and play with it, but the Sony DRM would prevent them from using it's full functionality. If they paid a fee, they would get a code tied to the unique code of the PS3(I'm pretty sure this exists) and they would be able to use the software in all it's glory. If their PS3 got damaged, then they could transfer the code to another PS3, but it would be a real hassle to transfer it back, and that would be intentional. What do you guys(I'm mean the programmers) think? 2007-12-15, 21:21 #4 mdettweiler A Sunny Moo Aug 2007 USA (GMT-5) 792 Posts Quote:  Originally Posted by jasong Okay, a$1,000,000 is the initial offer. If this is a good idea I've come up with, I suspect that someone will offer a lower bid. Btw, I had another thought while I was at work. The source code be ported, but some key component of the package, possibly involving network access, could have it's source code suppressed. People could download the free stuff and play with it, but the Sony DRM would prevent them from using it's full functionality. If they paid a fee, they would get a code tied to the unique code of the PS3(I'm pretty sure this exists) and they would be able to use the software in all it's glory. If their PS3 got damaged, then they could transfer the code to another PS3, but it would be a real hassle to transfer it back, and that would be intentional. What do you guys(I'm mean the programmers) think?
I don't know much programming myself, but wouldn't it be easier simply to port, say, LLR, to Linux on the PS3? That's how the PS3Grid BOINC project runs their client--on Linux on the PS3. I would imagine that would be a lot easier than messing with Sony game developer kits and all that stuff.

2007-12-16, 00:02   #5
jasong

"Jason Goatcher"
Mar 2005

66618 Posts

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Anonymous I don't know much programming myself, but wouldn't it be easier simply to port, say, LLR, to Linux on the PS3? That's how the PS3Grid BOINC project runs their client--on Linux on the PS3. I would imagine that would be a lot easier than messing with Sony game developer kits and all that stuff.
Well, as I said, I had no idea whether this thread was a good idea. As far as a Linux port is concerned, LLR was made for x86 processors, so I would think sending LLR to the PS3 would require both programming skills and knowledge of how the ins and outs of the math can best be implemented.

2007-12-16, 00:10   #6
mdettweiler
A Sunny Moo

Aug 2007
USA (GMT-5)

792 Posts

Quote:
 Originally Posted by jasong Well, as I said, I had no idea whether this thread was a good idea. As far as a Linux port is concerned, LLR was made for x86 processors, so I would think sending LLR to the PS3 would require both programming skills and knowledge of how the ins and outs of the math can best be implemented.
The Cell processor is based on the PowerPC processor--so I would imagine that one could start with a PowerPC Linux build of LLR (not that there is one yet) to make a PS3 version of LLR.

I think you can run just plain old Linux PowerPC binaries on the PS3 (under Linux, of course)--however, you won't be able to harness the power of the SPE's (the 8 cores, maybe it's 7 if you don't count the core PowerPC), only the main core of the processor (which is just a relatively fast PowerPC processor), which, though powerful, is nothing compared to the power you get when you utilize the SPE's. One problem though: I think I heard somewhere that the SPE's don't do double-precision floating point operations well, and somehow that makes it hard to do LLR or LL tests on them. However, I'm just repeating what I heard elsewhere on this forum, and I may or may not have even interpreted it well at that.

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