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 2012-09-20, 08:36 #1 ET_ Banned     "Luigi" Aug 2002 Team Italia 2×5×479 Posts Math Newbie question. We all know the limitations that a Mersenne factor should accomplish: - form of 2kp+1 - factor prime - 1 or 7 mod 8 - 16 definite residual classes out of 120 (or 910 out of 4620) Are there more/different clauses to follow for double Mersenne numbers? Luigi
2012-09-20, 09:23   #2
axn

Jun 2003

23×5×112 Posts

Quote:
 Originally Posted by ET_ - form of 2kp+1 - factor prime - 1 or 7 mod 8
Only these are the "true" limitations.

Quote:
 Originally Posted by ET_ - 16 definite residual classes out of 120 (or 910 out of 4620)
This is not a true limitation. This is just a consequence that the candidate factor be prime (i.e. no small factors).

Quote:
 Originally Posted by ET_ Are there more/different clauses to follow for double Mersenne numbers?
Not that I know of.

 2012-09-20, 09:39 #3 LaurV Romulan Interpreter     Jun 2011 Thailand 3×17×179 Posts We only know the first 3. There is no theoretical "jailbreak" since long-long time. The rest of the "rules", and all the modern tricks involved in programs like mfaktc, etc, are consequences of how we combine the first 3 rules, they don't bring anything new. The "classes" stuff are just special conditions we put for k depending on p (and BTW, your numbers are wrong). For example, we say "if p=1 (mod 4), then".... (from the condition 1 and 3 you get that the factor is either 8xp+1 or 8xp+6p+1). Or "if p=3 (mod 4), then".... (from the condition 1 and 3 you get that the factor is either 8xp+1 or 8xp+2p+1). This is the same as renaming k into 4k and respective 4k+3, the factors 1 (mod 8) will be 8kp+1 and the others viceversa. Adding p=1 (mod 3) and so on (working it mod 5, 7, 11, with 2^2 or 2^3), you get the whole lot of "classes" (like 4 from 12, 32 from 120, 96 from 420, or 960 from 4620, etc), because if k is not in one of the remaining classes, then either condition 2 is not satisfied (q is not prime) or condition 3 is not (for where we used 2^3). At the end everything is the first 3 rules and the chinese reminder theorem: if p is in THIS particular class (mod 4620), then k must be in THAT particular class (mod 4620) to get the right factor satisfying (1+2+3). And because p is prime, it can only be in "eulerphi(4620)" possibilities, which is 960. For each of them, the class of k is "computed". Well, somehow. Last fiddled with by LaurV on 2012-09-20 at 09:42
2012-09-20, 14:37   #4
science_man_88

"Forget I exist"
Jul 2009
Dumbassville

20C016 Posts

Quote:
 Originally Posted by LaurV We only know the first 3. There is no theoretical "jailbreak" since long-long time. The rest of the "rules", and all the modern tricks involved in programs like mfaktc, etc, are consequences of how we combine the first 3 rules, they don't bring anything new. The "classes" stuff are just special conditions we put for k depending on p (and BTW, your numbers are wrong). For example, we say "if p=1 (mod 4), then".... (from the condition 1 and 3 you get that the factor is either 8xp+1 or 8xp+6p+1). Or "if p=3 (mod 4), then".... (from the condition 1 and 3 you get that the factor is either 8xp+1 or 8xp+2p+1). This is the same as renaming k into 4k and respective 4k+3, the factors 1 (mod 8) will be 8kp+1 and the others viceversa. Adding p=1 (mod 3) and so on (working it mod 5, 7, 11, with 2^2 or 2^3), you get the whole lot of "classes" (like 4 from 12, 32 from 120, 96 from 420, or 960 from 4620, etc), because if k is not in one of the remaining classes, then either condition 2 is not satisfied (q is not prime) or condition 3 is not (for where we used 2^3). At the end everything is the first 3 rules and the chinese reminder theorem: if p is in THIS particular class (mod 4620), then k must be in THAT particular class (mod 4620) to get the right factor satisfying (1+2+3). And because p is prime, it can only be in "eulerphi(4620)" possibilities, which is 960. For each of them, the class of k is "computed". Well, somehow.
for Double Mersenne Primes all P=3 mod 4 and all P=7 or 31 mod 120 is all the limits I can come up with. the mod 120 values might give information about k but that's about it.

 2012-09-20, 19:33 #5 science_man_88     "Forget I exist" Jul 2009 Dumbassville 26·131 Posts to clear things up P=2^p-1 , second a thing I saw a while ago: MMx = MMx-1*(22[SUP]x-1[/SUP]+2)+1 sorry just realized that the 2nd 2 is not supposed to be in the exponent Last fiddled with by science_man_88 on 2012-09-20 at 19:40

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