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Old 2010-04-09, 12:40   #23
R.D. Silverman
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathew Steine View Post
I'm probably going to get put on Silverman's ignore list for this, which would be too bad some of his replies are quite interesting.

"A "critic" is a man who creates nothing and thereby feels qualified to judge the work of creative men. There is logic in this; he is unbiased β€” he hates all creative people equally."

Robert A. Heinlein

Since this does not apply to you here.

Just do a search in the Math or Miscellaneous Math treads and look for threads started by you. These would be all those impeccably written conjectures.

The closest thing I see to a conjecture that you started here was Generalization of Brun's Constant which started out with a simple copy and paste, and finished with questions. No attached file with an attempt of a proof. Then in your very next post to this thread you gave the following comment. "I did not give it adequate thought." You did, however have proper notation. Also, you were able to avoid the "I call it the Silverman constant, Silverman prime, etc." type of sentence.

I do apologize if you take this as a flippant remark. I am just trying to show you a different perspective.

Thank you for your time,

Mathew
I am not sure that I follow you. Are you claiming that I am merely a critic
and that I do no creative work?

When I have something worth saying I submit it as a research paper.
This way it gets fully examined by peers as to its value.

I have put forth several conjectures. But I have done so at math conferences,
in front of an international audience of research mathematicians.

How many papers would I have had to publish before I meet your standard
of creativity???
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Old 2010-04-09, 12:48   #24
Orgasmic Troll
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R.D. Silverman View Post
I am not sure that I follow you. Are you claiming that I am merely a critic
and that I do no creative work?

When I have something worth saying I submit it as a research paper.
This way it gets fully examined by peers as to its value.

I have put forth several conjectures. But I have done so at math conferences,
in front of an international audience of research mathematicians.

How many papers would I have had to publish before I meet your standard
of creativity???
Way to go, Bob. You've completely ignored pages of substantive arguments so that you can reply to the weakest and most irrelevant one.
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Old 2010-04-09, 13:22   #25
Uncwilly
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orgasmic Troll View Post
Way to go, Bob. You've completely ignored pages of substantive arguments so that you can reply to the weakest and most irrelevant one.
No, he actually proved a point that Cheesehead, myself, and some others have been trying to get across to him. Namely: MersenneForum is not the normal world of mathematic academia. MersenneForum is a place where rank amatures are expected to frequent. Since it is on-line non-academic forum and not a 'published' journal, it's threshold is much lower regarding math knowledge.
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Old 2010-04-09, 13:44   #26
fivemack
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A rather different forum, and a rather different topic, but

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb...needed-194189/

is an interesting read in the context of this thread
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Old 2010-04-09, 16:03   #27
R.D. Silverman
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncwilly View Post
MersenneForum is a place where rank amatures are expected to frequent. Since it is on-line non-academic forum and not a 'published' journal, it's threshold is much lower regarding math knowledge.

Yes, EXACTLY. I have never said that the threshold was that of
academic mathematics. I have said, however, that the threshold is
mastery of HIGH SCHOOL level mathematics. Without this, there is no
hope of conducting an intelligent discussion regarding the overall
purpose of this forum: Mersenne numbers are related matters.

Note also that there is a difference between "amateur" and "incompetent
amateur". "amateur" does not mean "ignorant", nor should it be used as
a synonym. It does mean "does not do this work for a living".

Too many people here are not just amateurs. They are incompetent
amateurs.
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Old 2010-04-09, 16:28   #28
flouran
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R.D. Silverman View Post
Note also that there is a difference between "amateur" and "incompetent
amateur". "amateur" does not mean "ignorant", nor should it be used as
a synonym. It does mean "does not do this work for a living".

Too many people here are not just amateurs. They are incompetent
amateurs.
But with amateurs, incompetence is to be expected (at least at first) because they are learning a new subject. Often I notice that when an amateur does not understand an idea that he/she sees for the first time and has not learned yet (and hence makes an unfounded assertion or asks a trivial question) you deride him or her of lacking the prerequisite knowledge of high school mathematics.

Most students tend to be incompetent when they first approach a subject because they are new to it. Thus, patience MUST be exercised in these situations (which occur rather frequently on this forum).
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Old 2010-04-09, 17:25   #29
xilman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flouran View Post
But with amateurs, incompetence is to be expected (at least at first) because they are learning a new subject. Often I notice that when an amateur does not understand an idea that he/she sees for the first time and has not learned yet (and hence makes an unfounded assertion or asks a trivial question) you deride him or her of lacking the prerequisite knowledge of high school mathematics.

Most students tend to be incompetent when they first approach a subject because they are new to it. Thus, patience MUST be exercised in these situations (which occur rather frequently on this forum).
Unfortunately, incompetence is not the exclusive preserve of amateurs. All too many people who earn a living from some activity are barely competent at the same.

FWIW, I'm an amateur at almost everything. I'm incompetent at almost as much.

Paul
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Old 2010-04-09, 18:53   #30
R.D. Silverman
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xilman View Post
Unfortunately, incompetence is not the exclusive preserve of amateurs. All too many people who earn a living from some activity are barely competent at the same.

FWIW, I'm an amateur at almost everything. I'm incompetent at almost as much.

Paul
Allow me to quote from "Dirty Harry"

You're a good man Lieutenant. ' good man knows his limitations.
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Old 2010-04-09, 19:07   #31
cheesehead
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Batalov View Post
I was completely blown away when discussing with my friend the assumed troubles between his daughter and her math teacher I came to realization that he just doesn't accept that zero is an even number.
... a link to a nontrivial Wikipedia article with six references, 94 footnotes and 19 suggestions for further reading. I wouldn't have guessed that so many people would have trouble recognizing that zero is even.

But ... we should recall that the invention (or discovery or recognition) of zero did not occur until thousands of years after the invention (or ...) of 1, 2, and 3.

Last fiddled with by cheesehead on 2010-04-09 at 19:11
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Old 2010-04-09, 19:24   #32
cheesehead
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R.D. Silverman View Post
I have said, however, that the threshold is mastery of HIGH SCHOOL level mathematics.
Oh? Where, exactly, in the rules of this forum does it say that?

Your pronouncement is both incorrect and inappropriate here.

Quote:
Without this, there is no hope of conducting an intelligent discussion regarding the overall purpose of this forum: Mersenne numbers are related matters.
Perhaps you cannot conduct an intelligent discussion of the overall purpose of this forum with someone lacking mastery of high school level mathematics, but many other forum members can do that.

Are you willing to acknowledge this difference in our respective competencies in that area?
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Old 2010-04-09, 19:42   #33
flouran
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cheesehead View Post
Are you willing to acknowledge this difference in our respective competencies in that area?
Aren't you on Silverman's ignore list? If so, I doubt he will read your post, unfortunately.

Last fiddled with by flouran on 2010-04-09 at 19:43
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