The "(W)TF Depth Debate" state of the bunion

[xilman]

Originally Posted by davieddy

Perhaps you and Chris might delegate your moderation to others - Phil, Paul and William spring to mind - since you obviously have a conflict of interests in this thread.

Fine by me. I check this thread most days.

[chalsall]

Originally Posted by davieddy

I would say the overriding decider was that taking the 64M expo to 74 bits created a virgin LL assignment.

What is your issue with "recycled" vs "virgin"?

Sincerely, I don't understand the point.

Originally Posted by davieddy

Perhaps you and Chris might delegate your moderation to others - Phil, Paul and William spring to mind - since you obviously have a conflict of interests in this thread.

Speaking for myself, I haven't edited any of your posts. Here or elsewhere. (Or, at least, not for several months.)

And I'm happy to delegate the moderation in this thread to others. For the record, I haven't approved / decided what not to approve in this thread for several days now.

[davieddy]

Originally Posted by chalsall

What is your issue with "recycled" vs "virgin"?

Sincerely, I don't understand the point.



Speaking for myself, I haven't edited any of your posts. Here or elsewhere. (Or, at least, not for several months.)

And I'm happy to delegate the moderation in this thread to others. For the record, I haven't approved / decided what not to approve in this thread for several days now.

@mods. Please don't print my earlier reply.
Reasons:
1) I couldn't delete/edit it
2) It was insufficiently insulting.
3) I am starting to get a bit tired of potty-training Chris.-

[davieddy]

Originally Posted by chalsall

Sincerely, I don't understand the point.

Are you suggesting that you are occasionally insincere?
Are you suggesting that I might have been under the delusion that you ever understood the point?

@Paul: THX. I shall aspire to your standards of wit, which I used to do prior to all this aggro. Hope your medical state is on the mend,
Mine is as implied in my comment on a life time ban.
It would be fun to run into you sometime between 4-6th April.

David

[davieddy]

Originally Posted by chalsall

What is your issue with "recycled" vs "virgin"?

Sincerely, I don't understand the point.

Neither does George.

I think Aramis and Garo do, but I hesitate to say it because last time I did, Garo hit me very hard.

There is concensus that if we directed all firepower at virgin exponents, we can just about meet demand for assignments, although I have this strong hunch that this demand is being suppressed by your antics.

Why then do you (egged on by George) react by grabbing every recycled expo in sight, when you don't see why this does nothing to satisfy demand for LL assignment?

I'll answer that for you. You wish to conceal the bollocks you have made of TF by GPU to date.

THAT IS MY ISSUE.

David

[garo]

David, what you are saying does not make any sense at all! You have said before that you like to do LL testing on the smallest available exponent if possible. Why on earth would you prefer to be assigned a 60M with TF done to 72 bits than to 74 bits. The whole purpose of catching recycled exponents is to make sure nothing is assigned for LL testing without sufficient TF done. Catching recycled exponents makes complete sense especially since most exponents end up expiring 2-3 times before they are eventually completed. And it improves project throughput thus bringing the next prime find closer than if we had followed your virgin exponent obsession!

Shouting and insulting other people does not change this simple fact.

[davieddy]

Originally Posted by garo

David, what you are saying does not make any sense at all!

Fighting talk.

You have said before that you like to do LL testing on the smallest available exponent if possible.

Indeed. And so does almost any LL tester.

Why on earth would you prefer to be assigned a 60M with TF done to 72 bits than to 74 bits.

Well that is academic since all expos >60M are TFed to 73+ thanks to Chris and George's insane idea of WMS^TM.
If I were offered two 60M exponents, one at 72 and the other at 74 I would say "Why the **** were these not both TFed to 73?"

The whole purpose of catching recycled exponents is to make sure nothing is assigned for LL testing without sufficient TF done.

Define sufficuent. If the bit level was deemed fit for a virgin, it should be fit for an old hag which has been round the block a few times.

Catching recycled exponents makes complete sense especially since most exponents end up expiring 2-3 times before they are eventually completed

It is throwing good money after bad. It will get LLed eventually, and TFing a 54M (I ask you) from 72 to 73 does not add to the LL assignment pool. The effort would be MUCH better spent taking a 66M expo to 73

. And it improves project throughput

RUBBISH

thus bringing the next prime find closer than if we had followed your virgin exponent obsession!

Virgins for TFers. Us LLers prefer the more experienced candidate.

Shouting and insulting other people does not change this simple fact.

You haven't been PMing Chalsall again have you?

David

[Aramis Wyler]

I wonder if there isn't a simple communication problem going on there wrt 'recycled exponents' because I can't fathom any difference between numbers that have had a partial LL done and numbers than haven't been tried at all (LLs are worth exactly nothing if they aren't carried to completion). That being the case I wonder if David is talking about DCs when he says recycled?

[chris2be8]

Recycled exponents will include ones where someone reserved it for LL, but never even started the LL test. But that makes even less difference than not completing a LL test.

Are recycled exponents made available to the same list of people as first time tests? If not that would make a difference.

The other possibility is that even though whoever started the test isn't reporting progress they might actually be running it, and suddenly report a result. But has this ever happened in the past? And would a one in a million chance be worth worrying about?

Chris

[davieddy]

Originally Posted by garo

Catching recycled exponents makes complete sense especially since most exponents end up expiring 2-3 times before they are eventually completed. And it improves project throughput thus bringing the next prime find closer than if we had followed your virgin exponent obsession!

Let us at least start from a point of concensus: we are aiming to find another Mersenne Prime as soon as possible. That said George (of all people) disputed this as the only way of justifying your antics.

We need to maximize the probability of finding one or more primes per day, which currently stands at 1/1500.5 ( @ Axn and Phil).

This is achieved by maximizing the number of LL completions per day, the lower the mean expo the better.

Now we come to the crunch: this depends on the number of virgins assigned each day.
Currently this is decided by Chris, who has an ingenious ploy which ensures that the assignment of virgins does not exceed their production rate.: whenever the enthusiam for virgins gets too high, he assigns 68-69M expos to dampen their ardour. This is a foolproof strategy because these get recycled wjth neglible risk of being completed (<100 so far).

What is the assignment demand?
Well, just allow all expos TFed to 73 be available for a week or so, and we'll find out. This is what I would call an empirical^TM approach.

David

BTW Garo, I assume you intend to delegate your moderation here with the same frankness and humility as Chris.

[davieddy]

Sigh.
Hasn't anyone heard of Kirchoff's Current Law?