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Old 2015-03-04, 01:38   #45
chalsall
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kladner View Post
Eh? My question was, basically, if you can have water at 1 C circulating, why add the complications involved with peltier junctions?
Sorry. I misunderstood.

Speaking of state-changes, anyone else intrigued by Einstein's fridge?
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Old 2015-03-04, 06:02   #46
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Peltier + Phase change is maybe a bit insane, agreed.

The Einstein fridge looks pretty neat. I'm surprised that I've never heard of it.
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Old 2015-03-04, 16:00   #47
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They are not quite the same as the 'Einstein' design, but I remember gas refrigerators. IIRC, they just use a pilot light sized flame to drive things.

I had an additional realization regarding phase-change systems. It is probably obvious to experienced liquid cooling users, but circulating antifreeze could be much colder than 1 C. As pointed out, this requires careful insulation of the cold-side components.
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Old 2015-03-04, 16:25   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kladner View Post
They are not quite the same as the 'Einstein' design, but I remember gas refrigerators. IIRC, they just use a pilot light sized flame to drive things.
http://home.howstuffworks.com/refrigerator5.htm
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Old 2015-03-04, 16:27   #49
Mark Rose
 
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My grandparents used a propane refrigerator for decades. They were off the grid.
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Old 2015-03-04, 16:39   #50
kladner
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xyzzy View Post
"COOL!"
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Old 2015-03-04, 21:51   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Rose View Post
My grandparents used a propane refrigerator for decades. They were off the grid.
I've got one of those in my RV (and so do most every RV out there, I suppose).

The basic models are either 120V or propane, but they also have 'em that will additionally run off 12V.

I *think* they're just ammonia absorption coolers, using either the electric or propane burner for the heat source.

One tricky thing with them is that they have to be level, so when leveling your RV/trailer, many people use their fridge as the reference point for just what to level.

They are pretty efficient, I guess. Running on just propane, I guess a 30# tank would keep it cool (like an 8 ft^3 unit or something) for roughly a month? Just guesstimating there... I've never run it that long on just propane, plus I run other things like the furnace and gas stove. But yeah, if you're off grid, just a tank of propane and you've got cold food. Pretty cool. Hunters use 'em all the time in their off-grid/seasonal cabins.
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Old 2015-03-05, 01:36   #52
chalsall
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Madpoo View Post
I *think* they're just ammonia absorption coolers, using either the electric or propane burner for the heat source.
Absorption cooling is a solution space I've been following for some time -- I think it could solve a lot of energy consumption issues for cooling once the tech matures.

Be sure to check out lithium bromide!
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Old 2015-03-05, 15:35   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chalsall View Post
Absorption cooling...!
It is used for ages on ice cream production on the freezers...lol

Last fiddled with by pinhodecarlos on 2015-03-05 at 16:12
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Old 2015-03-05, 16:27   #54
chalsall
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pinhodecarlos View Post
It is used for ages on ice cream production on the freezers...lol
Yeah, I know. Absorption cooling pre-dates compression!

Why I am interested in this is that those who live near the equator often spend a huge amount of energy for air conditioning -- usually carbon-based electricity.

If a safe, reliable and cost effective solar driven system could be achieved, it could cut fuel consumption considerably. After all, most cooling is needed during the day, when the sun is shining! And, it's trivial to "store cold".

Unfortunately ammonia is considered dangerous and thus tends not to be used in larger systems (unless very carefully and constantly managed by skilled operators). Separately the LiBr systems don't work at the temperatures producible by passive solar panels (plus the LiBr solution needs to be periodically tested for contamination).

But I know research is continuing being done on this, and commercial and residential sized LiBr units are on the market now (although not solar driven).
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Old 2015-03-05, 16:58   #55
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Do you have a cupola on your house? They can set up a nice thermal siphon in conjunction with open windows. Of course that relies on having a time of day when the air is cool, which might not be the case in that hellishly hot place you live ;)

Do you have much thermal mass in your place to regulate temperature over 24 hours?

Are your exterior surfaces a light colour to reflect sunlight?
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