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Old 2012-08-10, 16:12   #1
jasong
 
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I play Runescape a lot(lousy reflexes and fewer haters in the game are the reasons) and the teleportation ability got me to thinking.

If you had access to to the ability to teleport, one end of the teleport was in your house(a doorway, I assume) and the other end had to stay where it was once it was placed, where would the other end be?

Alternately, if you could decide where either end was placed, but once they were placed they were there permanently, what would you do?

Originally, when I came up with the idea, I was primarily thinking about transportation, so I'd put the other end in the parking lot of a huge mall. But then I got to thinking about it and realized if I put it someplace where the air pressure was a lot different, like the top of Mount Everest, I could produce energy from the wind it made. But then I'd constantly have a gale going on inside my house, not cool.

Another thing that's possible is to severely reduce lag times between Europe and the US.(it's my portal, so shut the heck up :) )

Lastly, for the 2 ends problem, it could be a really big doorway and we could have a highway that goes from Europe to the US.

Any other ideas about what could be done? And if this turns into a movable "Stargate" portal thread, then I don't mind a bit. :)
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Old 2012-08-10, 16:21   #2
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Something else I had thought of, something I think deserves a second post:

If spooky action at a distance(I forget the proper term) can be extended to teleportation, then we can solve the speed of light limitation with intergalactic travel that uses spaceships that carry these doorways. Since time is slowed down on the spaceships it would be as if the spaceships are traveling significantly faster than they would be to an outside observer.

I don't know how to do the math, but it would seem to me that the apparent time paradox problem from the different speeds of time for the 2 ends(makes sense to me, I apologize if I majorly screwed up somewhere) is solved by the speed of light limitation, so that you could kind of go into the future but it couldn't be used to cause a paradox at either end.

Thoughts? Flames? Pictures of bunnies with pancakes on their heads?
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Old 2012-08-10, 16:40   #3
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I think it depends on whether others can also use your teleportation ability. If not, I would do a link between my house and Fort Knox, for obvious reasons. If so, I would place the other teleportation site on the ISS, and charge NASA/ the Soviets to use it to travel back and forth...
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Old 2012-08-10, 16:47   #4
chalsall
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jasong View Post
Thoughts? Flames? Pictures of bunnies with pancakes on their heads?
Have you read Dan Simmons' Hyperion Cantos? Such teleportation systems are integral to the stories -- faster than light travel through them is possible, but you first have to get the portals where you want them using traditional slower-than-light transport. (And in the story-line, the humans don't understand how they work -- they're "gifts" from AIs who have provided them for reasons of their own.)

Personally, I don't believe teleportation of large quantum systems and their states will ever be possible. But I'd love to be proven wrong....

Last fiddled with by chalsall on 2012-08-10 at 16:55 Reason: s/believe transportation/believe teleportation/ I hate spell checkers some times....
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Old 2012-08-10, 17:01   #5
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Put it on a distant planet (or, in case it has to be transported by conventional means) find a sponsor so you can get it to escape our solar system like the Voyager probes. Once it's a safe distance away, make a fortune by running a business of toxic/nuclear waste disposal. Obviously the other end shouldn't be in my house but on some large piece of cheap land with a good road leading to it.

Last fiddled with by Puzzle-Peter on 2012-08-10 at 17:01
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Old 2012-08-10, 17:02   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chalsall View Post
Have you read Dan Simmons' Hyperion Cantos? Such teleportation systems are integral to the stories -- faster than light travel through them is possible, but you first have to get the portals where you want them using traditional slower-than-light transport. (And in the story-line, the humans don't understand how they work -- they're "gifts" from AIs who have provided them for reasons of their own.)

Personally, I don't believe teleportation of large quantum systems and their states will ever be possible. But I'd love to be proven wrong....
Thanks for that, if I follow the link and can get Kindle books of the stories, I'll definitely buy them.

Edit: Hugo award, awesome sauce.

Last fiddled with by jasong on 2012-08-10 at 17:08
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Old 2012-08-10, 18:43   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chalsall View Post
Have you read Dan Simmons' Hyperion Cantos? Such teleportation systems are integral to the stories.....
Hyperion is an outstanding series. Simmons explores the possible social effects of a number of technologies including AI's, what seems to be instantaneous travel, and a kind of physical immortality. This high-tech, interstellar setting is peopled by many strong characters.

Hyperion is an engrossing read. I've been through it three times, I think.
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Old 2012-08-11, 08:57   #8
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I would certainly place the two ends east and west of Himalaya at about 2500-3000 meters altitude. A tunnel through that mountain, that could let the wet air from the east to pass into the desert areas on the west) would be the best of what could happen for the Earth. More then a billion people would have food and this would immediately influence not only the regional economy, but all the world would benefit from the new farming lands.
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Old 2012-08-11, 10:14   #9
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It's not clear what constraints are placed on the tunnel in terms of diameter and end points. Neither are the mechanical properties made clear. For instance, if one end is at a different pressure and/or gravitational potential than the other would there be a mass-flow and/or work be needed to transfer mass through the tunnel? Would the end points need to be created near each other and one then transported to its destination, or could the remote end be created in situ? Are there practical limits on the upper and lower diameters of the tunnel and/or its length?

Here are two suggestions based on differing assumptions.

First, assume that a sub-micron diameter wormhole can be made and that the remote end does not need to be towed to its destination.

An approximately 0.1 micron hole placed at the centre of the Sun will emit approximately 1 gigawatt of power, mostly in the form of X-rays. The computation goes as follows. The temperature at the solar centre is about 2e7 K. The surface area of the hole, radius 1e-7 metres, is approximately 1e-13 m^2, where I've approximated 4\pi as 10. The Stefan-Boltzmann constant, \sigma, is approximately 1e-7 W m^{-2} K^4. The power output of a black body is given by \sigma r^2 T^4. Plugging in the numbers, and approximating (2e7)^4 as 1e29, gives a power output of 1e-7 * 1e-13 * 1e29 = 1e9 W as claimed.

Suitable engineering at the home end of the tunnel gives a rather nice, compact and clean power generator. Note that the proposal is independent of how pressure and/or gravitational gradients behave because we're extracting energy from the X-rays and gravitational red-shift from the centre of the sun is negligible.


Second assumptions: the hole needs to be towed into place, thus limiting its placement to be somewhere near the earth. The diameter of the hole may be at least metres across. Pressure gradient and gravitational potential effects may independently take either extreme behaviour or anywhere in between, making only relatively minor differences to the engineering.

I'd put such a tunnel in the neighbourhood of Saturn, possibly in orbit around Titan. Just as-is it would be a good place from which to launch spacecraft to most anywhere in the solar system, using Saturn's gravity for slingshot manoeuvres as required. The real benefit, however, comes from mining Saturn's atmosphere for chemical and fusion energy fuel and for helium. Chemical fuel is primarily hydrogen, though ammonia and hydrocarbons (principally methane and ethane) could be used for synthesis feedstock. An effectively inexhaustible supply of helium would revolutionize air transport on earth as dirigibles are presently limited by the expense of helium gas. Separation plants in Saturn's atmosphere, as well as producing the materials mentioned, could also produce deuterium and helium-3 in megaton quantities per annum, vastly more than needed for present day energy production, assuming the fusion reactors could be built. The separation plants would be suspended by hot air balloons (either with nuclear heating or by burning terrestial oxygen shipped up through the tunnel) and transport between the plants and the hole would be by rockets, either oxy-hydrogen chemical powered or He3-D fusion with hydrogen reaction mass.

Just in case you're wondering why Saturn rather than Jupiter --- the radiation environment is much more benign at Saturn.

Paul
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Old 2012-08-11, 10:36   #10
retina
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jasong View Post
... end had to stay where it was once it was placed ...
I think this is the problem section of your post.

A point on Earth will we rotating about the Earth's centre, which orbits the Sun, which orbits the Milky Way Galaxy, which moves in a unknown path through the Universe. And all of that is moving in time.

How do we define a fixed point?
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Old 2012-08-11, 11:08   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by retina View Post
I think this is the problem section of your post.

A point on Earth will we rotating about the Earth's centre, which orbits the Sun, which orbits the Milky Way Galaxy, which moves in a unknown path through the Universe. And all of that is moving in time.

How do we define a fixed point?
Probably meant something like "end must maintain a constant momentum after being placed". You could choose either the Earth or the Sun as the most reasonable reference frames, or e.g. Saturn in xilman's case.
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