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Old 2021-10-12, 19:40   #12
Viliam Furik
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greenskull View Post
Do we not leave an echo in the Universe with every step, word and thought that will sound forever?

I will formulate another close question - what do you consider the most valuable for you personally and for each of us or all of us together?
Thoughts, unless spoken or written, will be forgotten at some point (either when we forget them, or when we die). Words we say and things we do will be also insignificant, in a large enough scope.

To this question, I don't have an answer. Even my pretty thorough answer to the original question was not one I would be satisfied with as being the final answer, because it still needs to be thought through more deeply.
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Old 2021-10-12, 19:43   #13
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Originally Posted by kruoli View Post
... then my life definitely would be meaningless, at least after my death.
What would you call the universal equivalent of value in the scale of Universe?
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Old 2021-10-12, 19:50   #14
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What kind of value? Monetary value? Intellectual value? Imaginary value?

Each of those I would answer with: This is likely neglegible at a greater scale. You were talking about e.g. Newton, his advancements brought humanity further and we will keep his memento, but if he had not existed, sometime someone else would have come up with that ideas, I guess.
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Old 2021-10-12, 19:53   #15
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Originally Posted by slandrum View Post
Probably not. But the narcissism in us likes to think we do.
An unexpected answer. And I cannot agree with it.
Since every action is the cause of a number of consequences, which gives rise to endless chains of influence.

There is something else I should say here. But I will not rush :)

Last fiddled with by greenskull on 2021-10-12 at 19:54
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Old 2021-10-12, 19:57   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kruoli View Post
What kind of value?
The value in the scale of Universe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kruoli View Post
...but if he had not existed, sometime someone else would have come up with that ideas, I guess.
You don't know for sure how it would have been.
Life is a non-ergodic process :)

Last fiddled with by greenskull on 2021-10-12 at 19:57
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Old 2021-10-12, 20:01   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viliam Furik View Post
Thoughts, unless spoken or written, will be forgotten at some point (either when we forget them, or when we die). Words we say and things we do will be also insignificant, in a large enough scope.

To this question, I don't have an answer. Even my pretty thorough answer to the original question was not one I would be satisfied with as being the final answer, because it still needs to be thought through more deeply.
Your thoughts, even if they are not written down, they determine your behavior, your choice of decisions, which, of course, also affects the life of you and everyone around you.

Some are weak, others are strong, and still others are dramatic or, if you like, epic.

You've read Bradbury, haven't you?
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Old 2021-10-12, 20:02   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greenskull View Post
The value in the scale of Universe.
My answer is the same. How would you determine monetary value on a universal scale? Imaginary value? This cannot be tarred with the same brush, in now way. Why would you even assume there is a universal answer?
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Old 2021-10-12, 20:07   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kruoli View Post
My answer is the same. How would you determine monetary value on a universal scale? Imaginary value? This cannot be tarred with the same brush, in now way. Why would you even assume there is a universal answer?
What does the monetary value have to do with it?

What could be considered the universal equivalent of value in the relations of the subjects of the Universe capable of making independent choices?

I do know the answers to all the questions I ask here. But I am interested that they did not come from me.
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Old 2021-10-12, 20:13   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greenskull View Post
What does the monetary value have to do with it?
You asked about value, I asked which kind of value. You instead repeated your original statement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by greenskull View Post
What could be considered the universal equivalent of value in the relations of the subjects of the Universe capable of making independent choices?
If I understand correctly, there should be a physical solution to this, if not, you would have to assume some kind of deity that is not based in the universe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by greenskull View Post
I do know the answers to all the questions I ask here.
You are not god. If you think you know the answers because of some religious reason, okay, but you cannot infer from that that anybody else would share your thoughts on this, independent of your exact answer here.
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Old 2021-10-12, 20:22   #21
greenskull
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I don't need to be a god to deeply understand the subject of the conversation and know the answers to my own questions.

I'm not that young anymore and I have had enough time to think about it. I will say more, I have purposefully devote time to this work for some time now.

Last fiddled with by greenskull on 2021-10-12 at 20:24
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Old 2021-10-12, 20:27   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greenskull View Post
I don't need to be a god to deeply understand the subject of the conversation and know the answers to the my own questions.
According to Gรถdel, this is simply not possible in general. For simple questions, it might well be. You are seemingly looking for a "greater truth" or at least a truth that is not based on commonly accepted axioms. Then you would at least have to take a look at the incompleteness theorems.
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