20040622, 12:43  #1 
Nov 2003
2^{2}×5×373 Posts 
Assignments?
The range {10330000 12830000} has had 3 unfinished candidates for ages.
Isn't anyone doing these? 
20040622, 13:32  #2  
Nov 2003
3×5×11 Posts 
Quote:


20040624, 09:31  #3 
Aug 2002
Termonfeckin, IE
3^{2}×307 Posts 
I think we need to ask George to do a formal release on at least one of the exponents which shows over 1000 days to completion. Otherwise it is becoming an attractive target to poachers.

20040625, 17:28  #4 
Dec 2003
2^{3}×3 Posts 
I don’t understand why there are no faster reassignments for such exponents. We are not even loosing something. Should the result of the original come in it would be used as doublecheck. So we only would run the doublecheck before the first LL is in.
Matthias Noch 
20040627, 19:08  #5 
Aug 2002
Termonfeckin, IE
3^{2}×307 Posts 
well, these exponents were assigned to the respective users first and if any one of these exponents is prime, we do not wish to e unfair to them and take away their chance of discovering the prime. However, fair does not mean waiting forever and George usually releases exponents that have not had any work done or are being worked on very very slowly, once every 6 months or so. He will probably be doing a release of these numbers too. But in the meanwhile I hope no one wil take it upon himself/herself to complete them as that is "poaching" and we all know that "poaching is very bad" :)

20040629, 00:13  #6 
"Richard B. Woods"
Aug 2002
Wisconsin USA
2^{2}·3·641 Posts 
Will one or more of the complainants please refresh my understanding of precisely what harm is being done by these slowcompleters?

20040629, 13:27  #7 
"Richard B. Woods"
Aug 2002
Wisconsin USA
2^{2}×3×641 Posts 
Apparently some of the complainants feel impatience when they view the progress reports of the slowcompleters. But those are only internal feelings generated by the complainants themselves, not some real damage done by the slowcompleter. So, what actual harm is done in reality by any slowcompleter?
I've seen the discussion of errors caused by cosmic rays, and that the likelihood of such errors is proportional to the length of the LL run. In those discussions it is apparently assumed that slowcompleters pose a greater risk of turning in erroneous reports due to such errors. But the likelihood of cosmicrayinduced errors is also proportional to each computer's sensitivity to such errors. The slower computers are likely to be those with larger mask sizes used in printing their circuits, thus reducing their sensitivities to cosmicray damage, relative to the faster systems with thinner circuitry in which a cosmicray hit can affect a larger fraction of the area of a component.        Bob, Matthias, anyone else  can you demonstrate actual real harm (not just an effect on someone's feelings) done by a slowcompleter? 
20040629, 13:37  #8 
6809 > 6502
"""""""""""""""""""
Aug 2003
101×103 Posts
2·3^{2}·521 Posts 
< advocate >
Cheesehead, Perceived lack of progress of the whole project can make people feel like nothing is happening and that the project is stalling. If people feel that the project is stalling out, they may decide that their cycles have a better impact else where. The ratsjumpingoffasinkingship syndrom is of no help to the project. A smooth progress milestone production is a good thing. People don't like to see big spikes and then slow speed. Whiplash ain't fun. < / advocate > 
20040701, 04:18  #9 
"Richard B. Woods"
Aug 2002
Wisconsin USA
2^{2}×3×641 Posts 
Okay, that's another feelings example.
Perhaps some of our mathematicallysimple progress indicators are illsuited (in terms of feelings generated by impatient observers :) to the reality of what they're measuring. GIMPS progress, depending on the efforts of human volunteers using systems with a wide range of capabilities, is necessarily always going to have some stragglers. That doesn't mean GIMPS isn't progressing smoothly. Proposal for the GIMPS status page: (1) Instead of always showing the single lower bound of DCs, which progresses in jerks, show only the average exponent of the trailing 100 (or 41 or whatever) DCs. This average would, I think, increase relatively smoothly and not give the misleading impression of jerky progress. (2) Stop showing the countdown of exact number of tests needed to prove Mxx is Mxx  anyone who wants to know these numbers can derive them from the various report files. When the countdowns reach the single digits, they're not really informative  they're just provocative to the impatient. Last fiddled with by cheesehead on 20040701 at 04:24 
20040702, 08:40  #10  
Dec 2003
2^{3}·3 Posts 
Quote:
you asked what harm slowcompleter are causing. I have three points: 1.) The project is not only about finding isolated new Mersenne primes, but although about proving that these new found are the only ones in the range the current GIMPS is covering. We want to find all Mersenne primes in the data range and prove that they are the only ones. That means that we need to cover all exponents below a given new Mersenne prime to prove that this one is the number 36, 37 or 41. If it takes years to finish one small exponent, which under today’s normal performance would take only 4 of 5 days to calculate, it is holding up the whole process without need. That doesn’t help to get a better understanding of the distribution of those Mersenne primes. 2.) It makes a bad impression about the organisation of the project when we can’t finish a data range in an acceptable amount of time. We are crunching very large numbers, but fail to finish much smaller exponents. That doesn’t look good. 3.) We are doing a very abstract stuff here. To keep people motivated one needs to reach small and big milestones from time to time. As we don’t find a new Mersenne every month other milestones have to keep people interested. Like : All exponents below 8,715,700 have been tested and doublechecked. All exponents below 12,441,900 have been tested at least once. Countdown to testing all exponents below M(13466917) once: 4 Countdown to testing all exponents below M(20996011) once: 9,549 Countdown to testing all exponents below M(24036583) once: 42,739 Countdown to proving M(13466917) is the 39th Mersenne Prime: 39,154 Countdown to proving M(20996011) is the 40th Mersenne Prime: 204,395 Countdown to proving M(24036583) is the 41st Mersenne Prime: 271,351 If we loose one normal cruncher with an uptodate PC due to frustration about no progress we are loosing much more power then when we loose 10 angry slowcrunchers because their exponents were reassigned in time to keep the project rolling. It will close to be impossible to keep the project running in the much higher areas with only slowcompleters. We need as much highpower as we can get now that we really working big numbers. Best, Matthias C. Noch 

20040702, 16:27  #11  
Dec 2003
2^{3}×3^{3} Posts 
Quote:
I think we should take another approach to handing out work. Let us decide how large exponents we want by the number of days it will take to complete it, and hand out exponents in lots of different ranges at the same time. This will let everyone make steady progress and see exponents complete regularly at the speed he or she decide. And let the server deny requests for exponents which will take more than 120 days or so to complete. We will make progress in all ranges at the same time, and if you believe that there is a good chance to find a prime in a specific range, you can choose exactly that range. Machines will last longer in the project (remember that every cycle count as long as the exponent is completed) and produce results longer. Shure we won't complete the lower ranges as fast, but we will have perfect work for all kinds of computers for longer. When there are no more exponents left to test at 120 PIII days, the PIIIs will get double checks from the higher ranges, while there is still work left for Pentium IIs in the lower ones. 

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