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Old 2018-02-22, 21:42   #1
tServo
 
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Default Is there hope for the GPU shortage on the horizon?

FWIW, while scanning the gaming rumor-monger sites I ran across an interesting item that claimed Nvidia is going to try to alleviate GPUs being generally unavailable by coming out with a specific chip based on their newest architecture that is specifically for mining. Also,The board is said to be minus a lot of the video display logic and, one guy speculated, have a few instructions specific to mining. I'm EXTREMELY skeptical about the special instruction stuff, but the rest could be quite possible. Apparently, Nvidia is quite concerned that their next batch of cards due to come out soon will all be scarfed up by the miners leaving the gamers out in the cold -- again. There are lots of reports of a movement in the gaming community towards consoles, which are available.

On another topic, I have noticed that big power supplies ( 1000W & higher ) are also very difficult to find. Manufacturers are starting to produce mining-specific power supplies now.
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Old 2018-02-22, 22:48   #2
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We have been wanting to replace the 1060 in our gaming computer with a 1080 Ti for over 3 months, but the prices/availability are crazy.

We suppose the good news is we could probably sell the 1060 for what we paid for it.
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Old 2018-02-22, 23:08   #3
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I believe there might be some truth to this story.

The brand partners like Asus, Gigabyte, MSI, EVGA, etc are the ones who actually buy the graphic chips from AMD and NVidia . They don't want to be left with 1000s of old gen graphic cards when the crypto mining boom explodes. Also if the market crashes, every miner is going to sell their cards and the second-hand market will be flooded with cards, making the next gen cards a hard sell.

Gamers are loyal customers, they'll buy a new (high-end) graphics card every few years but they also buy the gaming/(high-end) motherbords/screens/accessories. They are a big driver for revenue/profit margins.

The miners only buy the high-end graphics cards in bulk, they don't buy the other stuff. They don't want/need the high-end gaming motherbord (they just put some pentium/celeron processor in them). They're also more likely to RMA their cards since they run them flat-out 24/7. They are not brand loyal customer, they just want to get the cheapest cards.

The mining only makes High-watt PSU suppliers happy and the retailers who are in a position to ask crazy prices for the limited stock of GPUs they get.
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Old 2018-02-23, 01:36   #4
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If these rumoured cards are CUDA specialists without video circuitry, sounds ideal for our uses!!! Not sure if I'll buy one new or pick up a cheap secondhand card or two post-cryptocrash, but either way it sounds great for forum uses!
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Old 2018-02-23, 03:06   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VBCurtis View Post
If these rumoured cards are CUDA specialists without video circuitry, sounds ideal for our uses!!!
Exactly my thought!
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Old 2018-02-23, 13:05   #6
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Also piecing it together from rumours, nvidia likely aren't pumping up production of current gen GPUs as the next gen successor are not far off and they'd rather switch to that.

I'm not so sure on the miner GPU rumours myself. How much saving is there in taking out the non-compute related parts? They're also going to want to be careful not to cut into their high end compute range by producing cheap general purpose compute cards.

I'm also not sure the PSU situation is really that big a deal for home users. Even if you want to run a pair of high end cards you don't need 1000W+, and the ones below that seemed to be still available, at least where I am.

If it wasn't for the time needed to do it, I've been debating selling some of my GPUs. I have more than I need, and think I could get back what I paid for some of them so effectively had them for free for the duration. Maybe replace them once next gen arrives.
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Old 2018-02-23, 20:46   #7
chalsall
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mackerel View Post
I'm not so sure on the miner GPU rumours myself. How much saving is there in taking out the non-compute related parts? They're also going to want to be careful not to cut into their high end compute range by producing cheap general purpose compute cards.
An excellent point.

I have read that Nvidia is a little unhappy about the mining demand making the cards meant for gamers being unavailable. Gamers are being priced out of the market for the ability to shoot people (virtually, of course...).

But, as you say, making a card just for mining could cut into their very expensive dedicated compute offerings.

A balancing act.
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Old 2018-02-23, 23:32   #8
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Most of these miners won’t touch “mining specific” cards with a 10ft pole because they’re worried about resale. If I had to guess (being involved in it) the mining on GPUs effect on supply/ delay of new card releases, etc. has about 6 months left. Then the used market will be absolutely flooded.

We’ve engaged in the practice with 100% of the proceeds being directed toward expanding infrastructure in our existing compute cluster. I expected it to stop being profitable for expansion in the fall - it hasn’t stopped yet.

Last fiddled with by airsquirrels on 2018-02-23 at 23:33
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Old 2018-02-24, 08:03   #9
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I think there are roughly two types of mining people. Let's call it small scale and large scale. I'm not sure where to draw the line between them. If you're doing it from home, it's small scale. If you have a purpose built facility, it is large scale. There will be a grey area in between.

Small scale miners might be more inclined to consider potential resale value. They are more flexible and bailing out is a possibility.

Large scale miners are making bigger bets on the long term. Quite possibly they have better power optimisation, and have less flexibility to bail out if things start to decline, but at the same time they're more likely to weather a storm. I think they might be interested in dedicated mining cards, if they provide a TCO benefit over consumer cards. Maybe from better optimised cooling by not worrying so much about noise. Pre-tuned firmware to make things quicker to set up. Or maybe power delivery circuit optimised for efficiency at mining loads. It will be a decision they have to make at some point, if they should continue with what they have, or replace with something better. When it comes to replacement time, that's when the market could get flooded with well used, older generation GPUs. Look at the wave of Xeons in the past for example.

It might be an interesting time when the next gen nvidia GPUs come out...
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Old 2018-02-24, 13:55   #10
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Default compute-specific gpu chips

Quote:
Originally Posted by tServo View Post
FWIW, while scanning the gaming rumor-monger sites I ran across an interesting item that claimed Nvidia is going to try to alleviate GPUs being generally unavailable by coming out with a specific chip based on their newest architecture that is specifically for mining. Also,The board is said to be minus a lot of the video display logic and, one guy speculated, have a few instructions specific to mining. I'm EXTREMELY skeptical about the special instruction stuff, but the rest could be quite possible. Apparently, Nvidia is quite concerned that their next batch of cards due to come out soon will all be scarfed up by the miners leaving the gamers out in the cold -- again. There are lots of reports of a movement in the gaming community towards consoles, which are available.

On another topic, I have noticed that big power supplies ( 1000W & higher ) are also very difficult to find. Manufacturers are starting to produce mining-specific power supplies now.
Suppose that yield is not so great, of fully functional chips. Suppose also that the video output circuitry is sometimes the part with a disabling flaw, and that the chip could be zapped with a laser in the right spots to disconnect the video output portion from power. That allows all the chip tdp to go to the compute circuitry, therefore allowing higher overclocking of the compute portion. That takes the chip from defective junk, or limited function at same speed grade as the full-function chips, to faster special-purpose product, which could bring a higher price from the miner community (or others). If demand was great enough, and price high enough, the manufacturer could consider also zapping functional-video output chips, shrinking the die by omitting the video-out portion, or using the die space for more compute cores from the start.

Last fiddled with by kriesel on 2018-02-24 at 14:02
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Old 2018-02-24, 21:43   #11
Mark Rose
 
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I've been watching the price of the cheapest 1070's and they've gone down in the last month. Still higher than they were in December.

Where I live, it's not profitable to buy a GTX 1070 for mining. In fact, in about 9 months, mining won't even pay for the electricity consumed by the card. Unless, of course, the cryptocurrencies go up in value.
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