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Old 2021-02-12, 04:15   #12
LaurV
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby Jacobs View Post
Every letter must be part of a word going across and a word going down.
Not really, you may have long words (unambiguous) whose non-terminal letters are not part of any other word, this is not forbidden in any kind of crosswords. For example, you have a 6 letters horizontal word starting in R1C1, then R2C4 can be black, if the letter in R1C4 is not ambiguous. Your requirement is very restrictive, it would restrict a lot the places where the black dots can go, for example, you would not have any black dot in row 2, nor any in column 2, nor any in row N-1, not any in column n-1, etc. (you can go on from here), because any such dot will insulate a letter in either row1, or col1, etc.

Last fiddled with by LaurV on 2021-02-12 at 04:20 Reason: clarify
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Old 2021-02-12, 04:26   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby Jacobs View Post
I am talking about blocked crosswords. By the way, your blocked crossword contains some 1-letter words (unchecked letters). Every letter must be part of a word going across and a word going down.
So my solution #8 is valid, right? We just need to deduct 450 for your new rule of no 1-letter words.

Therefore: 3600 - 450 = 3150

I hope we don't keep seeing more and more ever restrictive rules being added at random intervals.
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Old 2021-02-12, 04:55   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by retina View Post
So my solution #8 is valid, right? We just need to deduct 450 for your new rule of no 1-letter words.
OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby Jacobs View Post
Crosswords usually obey the following 3 rules.

1. The grid is symmetrical, the same upside-down.
2. The grid is connected.
3. Every word has at least 3 letters.
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Old 2021-02-12, 04:57   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncwilly View Post
OP
See #3. It went unanswered. We don't know what rules the OP has.
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Old 2021-02-12, 08:11   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LaurV View Post
... for example, you would not have any black dot in row 2, nor any in column 2, nor any in row N-1, not any in column n-1, etc. (you can go on from here), because any such dot will insulate a letter in either row1, or col1, etc.
You can have black spaces in any column or row. I didn't see any rule saying there can't be two together.
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Old 2021-02-13, 04:25   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby Jacobs View Post
I am talking about blocked crosswords. By the way, your blocked crossword contains some 1-letter words (unchecked letters). Every letter must be part of a word going across and a word going down.
Block-version is the most interesting one.
I slightly modifìed my candidate to fit your additional constraint.
Less words, but more symmetries.

86 words:
000100010001000
000100010001000
000000010000000
110001111100011
000000010000000
000100010001000
000100000001000
111111000111111
000100000001000
000100010001000
000000010000000
110001111100011
000000010000000
000100010001000
000100010001000
every letter belongs to at least one 3x3 square
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Old 2021-02-13, 06:14   #18
LaurV
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Quote:
Originally Posted by retina View Post
You can have black spaces in any column or row. I didn't see any rule saying there can't be two together.
That's what I said.

If you ask me what are "my" rules for a good crossword, then those should be only one: no ambiguity of the solution. This means that once you show me the solution, I would open my mouth large and make big eyes of awe and say "yes!". I wouldn't care about walls, corners, and stuff.

But the crosswords I used to solve a hundred years ago, when the crosswords were "something", i.e. before a lot of easy crap flooded the markets, had very well defined rules, like "no closed corners" (which means you could not have black squares in, say, R1C4 and R2C3, because in this case the R1C3 is a "closed" cell, and upper-left corner becomes a "closed corner", you would have a lot of possibilities to fill it, especially if you speak a "flexed" language, as Romanian; however, closed cells are accepted if not a lot, and not ambiguous by definition), or "no walls" (i.e. no two black squares can share an edge), etc. But what Bobby asked, every letter be part of two words, that would be a VERY restrictive condition, which I didn't see in almost any rebus I solved, except accidentally (in very good, awarded, rebuses). (P.S. In Romanian, rebus is just an advanced form of crossword - Ro="cuvinte încrucișate" - and in many contexts, they mean the same stuff and are interchangeable, but I just realized now, looking on wikipedia, that, in English, rebus is a different kind of logic game, so forgive me if I use the term to mean "crosswords").

So, what is shown on wikipedia as "american" or "australian/british", or "japanese" -style grids, would all be forbidden in competitions I used to participate in my youth (they all have closed corners, walls, and ambiguities), and they won't be published in "good" magazines. Also, the symmetry was not a requirement, but it was highly appreciated by solvers. Example: (random from web, Romanian Rebus Magazine, sometime in the '80s):

Click image for larger version

Name:	rebus.JPG
Views:	66
Size:	103.7 KB
ID:	24316
Please note that Bobby's rules will forbid all 3 grids in the example, as they all have at least 4 letters which are part of a single word.

Last fiddled with by LaurV on 2021-02-13 at 06:24
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Old 2021-02-13, 07:13   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LaurV View Post
That's what I said.
You said the opposite. You stated you can't, I stated you can.
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Old 2021-02-13, 07:32   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by retina View Post
You said the opposite. You stated you can't, I stated you can.
Read again.
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Old 2021-02-13, 07:50   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LaurV View Post
Read again.
Nope, I don't see it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by LaurV View Post
... for example, you would not have any black dot in row 2, nor any in column 2, nor any in row N-1, not any in column n-1, etc. (you can go on from here), because any such dot will insulate a letter in either row1, or col1, etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by retina View Post
You can have black spaces in any column or row.
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Old 2021-02-13, 08:15   #22
LaurV
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Which part of "if" (your condition applies) and "would" don't you get?

I thought you are native speaker.

If "any letter must be a part of 2 words", then there would be no dark square allowed in the second ring.

Or... oh? do you mean that you can have black square in the second ring, in case the correspondent "singled" square in the first ring is also black? Like a R2C2 black square will force all R1C1, R1C2 and R2C1 to be black?

Grrr, yeah, this way you can, but I somehow interdicted "walls" in my concept...
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