mersenneforum.org Cryptocurrency pyramid scheme
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2021-04-05, 02:26   #12
retina
Undefined

"The unspeakable one"
Jun 2006
My evil lair

17FD16 Posts

Quote:
 Originally Posted by a1call How is that worse than volatility of money: https://www.statista.com/statistics/...nflation-rate/ https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...World-War.html At least with cryptocurrency the volatility is not a factor of which ideology governs your locale.
With standard, or normal, currencies at least you know who is manipulating it. And might have the opportunity to vote them out in the next election if things don't go your way. Can you say the same with bitcoin? Who is manipulating it? What are their goals?

2021-04-05, 08:30   #13
S485122

Sep 2006
Brussels, Belgium

2·5·167 Posts

Quote:
 Originally Posted by a1call How is that worse than volatility of money: ... At least with cryptocurrency the volatility is not a factor of which ideology governs your locale. ETA Unless we keep evaluating them in terms of money.
You compare inflation, which is a more or less steady process (with its fluctuations), with the erratic fluctuations due to speculation.

Even with a hugely varying inflation you would not see a (traditional) currency exchanging at 100 one week, 1000 the next and 10 the week after.

As about replacing money, cryptocurrency IS money. One can see money as a single measure used to compare different goods, rights or services. There is one fundamental problem with current society : it evaluates everything in that unique dimension and most entities have "no value" (they can not be easily measured in money terms and in the absence of an evaluation they are considered to to have a null value.)

Jacob

2021-04-05, 11:51   #14
xilman
Bamboozled!

"𒉺𒌌𒇷𒆷𒀭"
May 2003
Down not across

1068210 Posts

Quote:
 Originally Posted by a1call The concept of Money/(Cash/Currency) is only-about/more-than a thousand years old.
Wrong.

The first gold and silver coins were minted over 2500 years ago in Greece. Promissory notes date from 6th century China.

Commodity money is much older. The Babylonians invented the shekel as a unit of weight around 5000 years ago and it soon became a form of money. Cowrie shells have also been used as commodity money for a long time but I do not know where and when they first came into use.

A concept which has been around for all of recorded history is not going to die out any time soon in my opinion.

Last fiddled with by xilman on 2021-04-05 at 11:53

 2021-04-05, 12:02 #15 a1call     "Rashid Naimi" Oct 2015 Remote to Here/There 2·3·337 Posts Money's volatility is not purely based on inflation. It too has speculative factors based on the Forex-Market. Forex money pairs fluctuate up as well as down regularly: https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/quote/CADUSD=X/ Money volatility has been severe at times. There are tales of people going to restaurants and not being able to pay for their meals by the time they were finished eating due to inflation. The speculative fluctuations of cryptocurrency (or any other money alternative) will stabilize as its use gets more wide spread as is the case with blue-chip stocks (or strong "traditional" money such as US Dollar). The fluctuations relative to money are only meaningful while money is still in use. Once completely eliminated there will be no such fluctuations possible. Last fiddled with by a1call on 2021-04-05 at 12:05
2021-04-05, 15:46   #16
storm5510
Random Account

Aug 2009

2×971 Posts

Quote:
 Originally Posted by S485122 ...As about replacing money, cryptocurrency IS money. One can see money as a single measure used to compare different goods, rights or services. There is one fundamental problem with current society : it evaluates everything in that unique dimension and most entities have "no value" (they can not be easily measured in money terms and in the absence of an evaluation they are considered to to have a null value.) Jacob
For a very long time, holders of Bitcoin, for example, had extremely few sources to buy items and services with their coins. Having crypto-only merchants seemed to be the original intent, but failed. People wanted conversions to their local currency, be it Dollars, Euros, Yen, or whatever. They understood the value of it.

Until recently Coinbase had a feature to link to a person's bank account for the purpose of buying coins, only. Now, it is bidirectional. A person can sell their coins, for the going price, in U.S. currency, for example, and send it to their bank accounts. They can also just leave it there being only subject to inflation rates and not the yo-yo movements of the crypto markets.

I believe there will always be currency and banks. The form will change though. The standard practice of printing currency and stamping metal coinage will be no more. People will only use the credit/debit cards they carry in their pockets. Basically, it will all be digital.

I still have a Coinbase account which I look at perhaps twice a year, or even less. What I have there is in U.S. Dollars so there wound not really be a need to look at all. Coinbase recently went "public" on the NYSE. Perhaps they may begin paying interest on people's holdings to keep them there.

2021-04-05, 16:27   #17
Blackadder

"Angelino Desmet"
Mar 2018
Belgium

72 Posts

Quote:
 Originally Posted by S485122 cryptocurrency IS money.
Cryptocurrencies are not currencies, but pyramid schemes disguised as such.

Quote:
 Originally Posted by a1call The concept of Money/(Cash/Currency) is only-about/more-than a thousand years old. It can not last much longer. It's only a matter of time before someone comes up with a replacement-concept that works. Bit-currencies are just some early attempts. Civilizations have carried on and prospered for thousands of years prior to invention of money. It is not an absolute necessity. ETA IMHO the shortcomings of bit/crypto-currencies is that they are still linked to the arbitrary/artificial/soon-to-be-obsolete concept of Money. Once they get to the root-objective of evaluation of commodities/work-performed/products/possessions it will all make sense.
I agree with the notion of a world without currency as we know it, I mention it in an article I wrote:
“Relieving humans from having to worry about or deal with money would be an actual Copernican revolution. How that would work is beyond me, but that's precisely why it would be revolutionary. Copernicus let the world revolve around the sun, bitcoin let everything revolve around ourselves—profit. Think bigger. Do better.” —Money corrupts; bitcoin corrupts absolutely, https://www.cynicusrex.com/file/cryptocultscience.html

Last fiddled with by Blackadder on 2021-04-05 at 16:31

2021-04-06, 19:09   #18
storm5510
Random Account

Aug 2009

2×971 Posts

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Blackadder Cryptocurrencies are not currencies...
If this is true, then how is it that so many people convert their coins to "currency" which their banks readily accept as money?

 2021-04-06, 19:19 #19 VBCurtis     "Curtis" Feb 2005 Riverside, CA 7×683 Posts By your logic, stocks are currencies too. Which is bitcoin more like- a share of stock, or a $100 bill? 2021-04-06, 20:53 #20 PhilF Feb 2005 Colorado 26916 Posts Quote:  Originally Posted by VBCurtis By your logic, stocks are currencies too. Which is bitcoin more like- a share of stock, or a$100 bill?
$100 bill. For quite a while now my Dish Network bill has offered Bitcoin as a payment method, and I know of several vendors who actually prefer Bitcoin for payment, to the point of offering a discount if you'll use it.  2021-04-06, 21:53 #21 VBCurtis "Curtis" Feb 2005 Riverside, CA 7×683 Posts Is your dish bill the same number of bitcoins every month? Or do they change the "price" every billing period? A recurring payment in constant number of BTC would satisfy my concept of currency, but a "it's$59 a month, but you can pay in {arbitrary conversion factor} BTC today if you like, and some other amount of BTC next month" makes it not currency to me. I can sell a share of Tesla as needed to pay bills, with lower transaction costs than selling or even transferring a slice of bitcoin- but how much Tesla I have to sell would vary from month to month. What is the transaction fee to transfer BTC for that Dish payment? I'd heard payment fees were over $10 per transaction for BTC now, an order of magnitude higher than stock transfers. Still seems more like stock than cash to me. My$100 bill loses no value if I try to give it to someone as payment.
2021-04-06, 22:18   #22
PhilF

Feb 2005
Colorado

617 Posts

Quote:
 Originally Posted by VBCurtis Is your dish bill the same number of bitcoins every month? Or do they change the "price" every billing period? A recurring payment in constant number of BTC would satisfy my concept of currency, but a "it's $59 a month, but you can pay in {arbitrary conversion factor} BTC today if you like, and some other amount of BTC next month" makes it not currency to me. I can sell a share of Tesla as needed to pay bills, with lower transaction costs than selling or even transferring a slice of bitcoin- but how much Tesla I have to sell would vary from month to month. What is the transaction fee to transfer BTC for that Dish payment? I'd heard payment fees were over$10 per transaction for BTC now, an order of magnitude higher than stock transfers. Still seems more like stock than cash to me. My $100 bill loses no value if I try to give it to someone as payment. You have it right, it is more like "it's$59 a month, but you can pay in {arbitrary conversion factor} BTC today if you like, and some other amount of BTC next month".

But the reason I saw that as closer to the \$100 bill is because I can open my browser, pay that bill with Bitcoin, and be done with it. I can't do that with stock that has to be sold first.

Most of the fees are paid when you purchase Bitcoin. Unless there are specific circumstances that I am not aware of, there aren't any significant costs associated with spending Bitcoin.

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