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Old 2007-03-21, 22:36   #1
davieddy
 
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Default Music and Maths

It has been mooted that such a thread would be welcomed.

To start the ball rolling, quote a lyric and ask people to place it.

Two Dylan ones to start with:

"Circled by the circus sands"
"Takes himself so seriously"

David
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Old 2007-03-21, 22:58   #2
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Admittedly not much maths in this thread ATM but
I'm sure it will be forthcoming
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Old 2007-03-23, 16:00   #3
mfgoode
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Default Pyramids!



Well I'll take a shot at it. I cant place your two lines and I wont check the net for it.
I'll take you back way back when.

'Fly the ocean in a silver plane,
Watch the jungle when its wet with rain,
Just remember when you're home again'

The last line is the title of the song. and sung by ?

I hope this is what you mean or am I making an ass of myself ?

My heading is a hint;

Mally

Last fiddled with by mfgoode on 2007-03-23 at 16:02
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Old 2007-03-23, 16:14   #4
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Give us a hint Mally: what is "way back then"?
Obviously Google slightly spoils this entertainment.
My Dylan quotes are pre 1967. (His classic years).

David
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Old 2007-03-23, 16:21   #5
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we could discuss about "the sound of proportions"
e.g. octave => double frequency
what about steps of 2^(1/12) vs. harmonic/natural ratios :
3/2 for C-G, 4/3 for C-F (? do I remember well ?), ...
"wohltemperiertes Klavier", etc. etc.
Has anyone experienced an otherwise tuned piano (or other instrument)?
What then if you change keys, how does it sound ?
Is it because of the little differences to a "mathematical" 2^(1/12) tuning that some keys sound "heroic", some sound "sad",...
or is this just imagination, or because we've been told so ?

and what about the analogy to optics ?
is it a coincidence that we see about just one "octave" of frequencies ?
notice that the color's cycle seems to close when going from 400nm (ultraviolet - red should come after blue and violet) to 800nm (infrared - violet should come before red and orange).

If we could see more than an octave, would we "see" more harmonics, just as we hear them ?

PS: davieddy, I envy you for your avatar. No need to precise I did not choose mine. Makes me terribly nervous. Is Grommit still avail ?

Last fiddled with by m_f_h on 2007-03-23 at 16:28
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Old 2007-03-23, 16:23   #6
mfgoode
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Cool Oldies !



It was in the 40's about the fag end of the WW 2 when the allies were about to return home to their resp. countries.

Now that should place it fella !

Mally
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Old 2007-03-23, 16:34   #7
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Thanks to m_f_h for attempting to introduce the maths.

The best "place the lyric" questions have you saying
"I know that", but without the rhythm or melody, you
just can't place it.
Poetic as your poser is Mally, it hasn't rung a bell yet.

Here's one from the forties for you:
"....than to have your ham and eggs in Carolina"

David
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Old 2007-03-23, 16:37   #8
mfgoode
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Question Sound of proportions!

Quote:
Originally Posted by m_f_h View Post
we could discuss about "the sound of proportions"
e.g. octave => double frequency
what about steps of 2^(1/12) vs. harmonic/natural ratios :
3/2 for C-G, 4/3 for C-F (? do I remember well ?), ...
"wohltemperiertes Klavier", etc. etc.
Has anyone experienced an otherwise tuned piano (or other instrument)?
What then if you change keys, how does it sound ?
Is it because of the little differences to a "mathematical" 2^(1/12) tuning that some keys sound "heroic", some sound "sad",...
or is this just imagination, or because we've been told so ?

and what about the analogy to optics ?
is it a coincidence that we see about just one "octave" of frequencies ?
notice that the color's cycle seems to close when going from 400nm (ultraviolet - red should come after blue and violet) to 800nm (infrared - violet should come before red and orange).

If we could see more than an octave, would we "see" more harmonics, just as we hear them ?

PS: davieddy, I envy you for your avatar. No need to precise I did not choose mine. Makes me terribly nervous. Is Grommit still avail ?


Interesting theories m-f-h

You have missed out on the Fourier series altogether which is the core of the theories of sound and sinusoidal waves.

Also the organs of hearing and sight are based on the tympanum and the retina then how can they have the same sensations when they have their limits of sensitivity ? And at different ranges ?
As I said interesting indeed!

Mally
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Old 2007-03-23, 16:57   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davieddy View Post
"Circled by the circus sands"
"Takes himself so seriously" David
2nd would be the "little boy lost" -bd
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Old 2007-03-23, 17:00   #10
davieddy
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m_f_h View Post
we could discuss about "the sound of proportions"
e.g. octave => double frequency
what about steps of 2^(1/12) vs. harmonic/natural ratios :
3/2 for C-G, 4/3 for C-F (? do I remember well ?), ...
"wohltemperiertes Klavier", etc. etc.
Has anyone experienced an otherwise tuned piano (or other instrument)?
What then if you change keys, how does it sound ?
Is it because of the little differences to a "mathematical" 2^(1/12) tuning that some keys sound "heroic", some sound "sad",...
or is this just imagination, or because we've been told so ?
About 30 years ago I bought a second hand electronic organ simply
because each of the twelve tones were tunable individually.

Notably 2^(19/12) is close to 3/2.
But 7/4 lies halfway between A and Bflat (tonic C). Tuning the "diminished 7th chord" correctedly was a revelation.

Mind you I am (or was) a violinist, so intonation was a movable feast.
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Old 2007-03-23, 17:33   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bdodson View Post
2nd would be the "little boy lost" -bd
Yes but that's not the title.
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