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Old 2005-12-06, 23:55   #12
Peter Nelson
 
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Oct 2004

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mfgoode
Yes Peter things coud be worse.
If you really want to see how bad things are take a load of this

Driving Licence Application Form in Bihar

DERIVING LICENSE APPLIKASON PHOROM


(snip)
.....

WE ARE VARY ISTRICT ABOUT THIS

So Peter in spite of this we are still forging ahead.
Mally

l
ROFL Mally that was BAD!

I'm relieved I already have a UK driving license (the application was a more complex form but at least readable).

Without any disrespect, and half jokingly let me say that is worse than some of Moo's writing on this forum (at least he has useful contributions and I respect him a lot).

Actually it really surprises me on corporate websites translated into English how apalling some of them are. In particular technical companies from China/Taiwan where there are very pretty graphics but the text wording is hopelessly poor. A native English speaker would spot such errors with about 5 seconds of proofreading! I really think it would benefit these companies if they just asked some English or American person to look over what they wrote before publishing it to the world as an impression of their company.

After all if a foreign buyer imports their products they will want some confidence that if necessary they can communicate fluently with the selling organisation to resolve queries and support issues. If the company can't write coherent text, that does not indicate any after-sales support will be intelligible.

Most Indian sites I have read actually do have a high level of good English spelling and grammar, and have good one-to-one correspondence of technical phrases.

"Signed with a thumbprint"

----> U U <------ both fingers

Peter
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Old 2005-12-07, 14:44   #13
mfgoode
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Nelson
ROFL Mally that was BAD!
snip.....
Most Indian sites I have read actually do have a high level of good English spelling and grammar, and have good one-to-one correspondence of technical phrases.

"Signed with a thumbprint"

----> U U <------ both fingers

Peter
I like that Peter. Not with phingers of the pheet!

Peter its heartening to know that you are so interested in the Indian IT industry to tackle it from a grass roots level.

Maybe if you take a birds eye view the hilly regions will appear more level, less daunting and less unsurmountable.
You are magnifying a insignificant segment of a Koch’s curve and over looking the entirety of its infinite length, enclosing a finite area, a marvel in itself !

It appears to me that you seem to have an obsession with accents and a Xenophobia of Indians in particular.

My advice is not to bother about it as we have to live with it. Its not that you alone, by taking me on, one on one, can change India.. Its up to you to change yourself and your attitude and you will be a far happier person

To divert a bit and get an overall view of the progress of India I give below the comments of just one individual of the well nigh 1.8 bn who inhabit this vast mystical land. In a way it reflects all our sentiments..

National Pride:

Dear Friends,

Here is a personal experience, as well as a moment of national pride, which I want to share with you. Hope you find it worth the time you put in reading it :

"In the middle of 1965 India-Pakistan war, US govt - then a close friend of Pakistan - threatened India with stopping food-aid (remember "PL-480"?).
For a food deficient India this threat was serious and humiliating. So much so that in the middle of war, Prime Minister (Late) Lal Bahadur Shastri went to Ram Leela Grounds in Delhi and appealed to each Indian to observe one-meal-fast every week to answer the American threat.

As a school boy, I joined those millions who responded to Shastriji's call. I continued the fast even when the war was over and India became
self sufficient in food.
Hurt deep by the national humiliation suffered at the hands of the US government, I had vowed to stop my weekly fast only when India starts giving aid to USA.

It took just 40 years! Last week THE day arrived, when the Indian Ambassador in Washington DC handed over a cheque of US$ 50 million to the US govt, two plane loads of food, medical aid and other relief materials were waiting to fly to the USA.

Time to break the fast? With no bad feeling about the USA, and good wishes for the Katrina victims, this humble Indian feels proud of the distance India has covered in 40 years"
Mally
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Old 2005-12-08, 03:06   #14
mfgoode
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Nelson
Hey mfgoode, some good news $250m for your country....
Correction Peter. Like in so many points you are lagging behind badly.
If India was a hopeless case for investing in IT, Bill Gates and Intel etc would not invest and 'sink' so much money.
Please read on FYI.
Bill Gates' big plan: $1.7 billion investment in India

December 07, 2005 14:49 IST


Bill Gates, Chairman of Microsoft Corp, the world's largest software company, said that the company will invest $1.7 billion in India over the next four years to expand its operations.

The amount is to be deployed across select focus areas in line with Microsoft's strategic vision for India, he said on Wednesday at a press conference in New Delhi.

The fund would also be spent in making India a major hub of Microsoft's research, product and application development, services and technical support for both global and domestic companies.

Earlier in the day, Gates said that the software giant will hire more than 3,000 employees over a period of three to four years in India.

Bill Gates in India: Complete Coverage
India's highly skilled professionals, low-cost operations, a booming economy, good telecommunications links and a rapidly growing market have made many a foreign companies announce big investments or increase existing investments in the country.

"We depend on India for manpower that is why we are scaling operations here. We have 4,000 people today and we will be 7,000 over the next three to four years. We are hiring as fast as we can," Microsoft Chairman and Chief Software Architect Bill Gates said in New Delhi at the CII-CEO Forum.

Gates was emphatically impressed with India's human resource saying, "India has a fantastic pool of software professionals. The world needs to benefit from this. I never thought with so little product companies software services sector will grow so strong as it has grown here."

Only two days ago, Intel, the world's largest chipmaker, too had announced that it will invest over $1 billion in India.

In October, Cisco Systems too said it would invest $1.1 billion in India over the next three years and also triple its staff here. Global banking giant J P Morgan Chase & Co said on Monday that it would employ almost 4,500 graduates in India over the next two years.

What do you have to say Peter. Its just not outsourcing that counts. You have picked on a very insignificant detail of IT on the whole
Cheers;
Mally

Last fiddled with by alpertron on 2006-05-20 at 17:11 Reason: Corrected quote tag
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Old 2005-12-11, 16:39   #15
mfgoode
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Heres something which might interest you further
Peter Nelson.Thats another feather in our cap.


FYI Mally

Click the following to access the sent link:
Rediff.com - NRI is youngest IBM Fellow with 300 patents
NRI: means Non Resident Indian
This article can also be accessed if you copy and
paste the entire address below into your web browser.
http://www.rediff.com/money/2005/dec/10nri.htm

Mally

Last fiddled with by mfgoode on 2005-12-11 at 16:43 Reason: Addition
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Old 2005-12-20, 03:25   #16
mfgoode
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Heres something more on outsourcing in India for you Peter.
0]aaditeshwar writes "Economist has an article on the current and
projected [1]state of outsourcing IT and other business processes to
India. The biggest problem seems to be that the talent pool of skilled
workers will not able to keep up. Currently there are about 700,000
people working in IT and outsourcing, which is likely to grow up to 2.3
million by 2010, but only 1.05 million new graduates will qualify from
local colleges in the next 5 years leading to a shortfall of 500,000
workers! All this despite the fact that almost 2.5 million students
graduate in India each year." From the article: "In IT the growth in
Indian exports is expected to come both from the software market, and
from 'traditional IT outsourcing'--such as the remote management of
whole
systems, a market now dominated by the big global IT consultancies.
This
is expected to rise from 8% of Indian sales now to about 30% in 2010,
while software-development's share will fall from 55% to 39%. In
business-process-offshoring, the big industries will remain banking and
insurance. But rapid expansion is also expected in other areas, like
legal services."

Discuss this story at:
http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=05/12/17/2134221

Mally
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Old 2005-12-20, 15:33   #17
Peter Nelson
 
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Thanks for your informative posts, Mally.

The PROPORTION of IT graduates is still very low compared to the vast population.

Further the article estimates that the number of graduates will lag behind the demand. This would force labour rates up to compete for graduates.

If Indian staff had to be paid more this affects the business case for investing there in the first place.

Also, remember I wrote that although there are xxx graduates, the real question is how many EXPERIENCED people.

In UK there are some "graduates" who are deemed "unemployable" because although they have their degree they do not have a mindset to work, interpersonal skills, or whatever other reasons.

I would say in several reports there is "spin" (/public relations) on the story.

Yes it is true that large companies see a way to survive or increase their profitability by moving operations to India, and for these reasons they can justify large financial sums of investment.

I think that is good for your country.

It may though, be very localised, concentrated on certain urban locations like New Delhi and leave rural areas as a backwater.

Perhaps it will also create some social problems eg between the "haves" and the "have-nots" eg as rich IT workers will have much more disposable income than their fellow Indians who work in other trades.

Yes such (relatively) rich IT workers will increase demand for services across all sectors, which will help "trickle down" that wealth. But consider if they spent their wealth in buying up residential property, it could price normal people out of the housing market, or "tax" them with extortionate rent payments, creating further problems. However, I know Indian property market is complex eg rights to the family home may persist after a sale. Such problems are just one manifestation of so-called "globalisation".

I think India also has certain climate benefits over other regions. You seem to receive a lot of sunshine.
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Old 2005-12-20, 16:38   #18
mfgoode
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Thank you Peter for your knowledgeable post on the scene in India.
I must say all of them have been well researched and presented and I'm happy to find that you are observing India with a very critical eye for future developments.
Having English ancestry myself I decided to stay on in India as My father and grand father did before me.
I must confess my loyalty is divided and weighing the pros and cons I sent my two sons to England to get back to their roots after giving them a sound education In India, itself, and when they were mature individuals, and not as green horns, like my brother Pat, who left our shores at the tender age of 17,
after graduating in Economics from Darjeeling, as we were still under the Anglo Indian (AI) grant by the British. I followed suit with my studies in Mech Engg.
I may add Pat was the only AI and outstanding stock broker in the London stock exchange.

Hey Im giving my life story so Ill cut it short.

Well I have done my best to better India in every way I could by becoming a roving flying ambassador of my country and now Im retired with one final destination.! "All Paths lead but to the grave! Oh Death where is thy victory? Oh
Grave where is thy Sting?"

Yes it' sunny here all year round. Have you been to Goa on Vacation? Try it out!. My Warren and English wife swear by it and fly down every year.
Mally
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