Official FactorDB server status thread - Page 2

unconnected · 2022-10-25, 12:53

Noticed this too. Someone added bunch of composites of form 10^95+n.

retina · 2022-10-25, 12:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by unconnected

Someone added bunch of composites of form 10^95+n.

To be fair, the factordb code added those values. Whether or not the original person(s) making the query knew that they were also going to be added is not known.

EdH · 2022-10-25, 13:06

There is some method to use factordb to create tables of formulas. I have seen this in the past, but don't remember how to get there. When fdb runs the tables, it automatically adds all the unfamiliar numbers to its held data.* This is not a user's fault, but may be collateral to the intended work. Also, sometimes, Markus has the db work in areas that generate smaller composites.

* LaurV also mentioned this somewhere.

(I'm wondering if it's the Group Order Tool. . .)

unconnected · 2022-10-25, 13:44

FactorDB itself has a limit of 500 entries for such requests, so someone(!) has been sending requests over and over again with different offsets to generate over 1M new composites. This should be evaluated as a malicious activity.

chalsall · 2022-10-25, 21:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by unconnected

This should be evaluated as a malicious activity.

As Madpoo once observed... "This is why we can't have nice things.

Do these people not have better things to do with their time?

Prove a point, sure. But then document it, and be done.

Happy5214 · 2022-10-25, 23:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by unconnected

FactorDB itself has a limit of 500 entries for such requests, so someone(!) has been sending requests over and over again with different offsets to generate over 1M new composites. This should be evaluated as a malicious activity.

It's 200 now (see this heavily calculated sequence), making it impossible to fit that many into one request. They should have run into the ID creation limit (6k IIRC) well before fitting in over a million.

One possibility is that they submitted a series of massive phony factor reports to bypass the limits (I can PM you my exact theory, since I don't want to give anyone a blueprint), similarly to how you can exceed the limits when submitting a single aliquot sequence elf file.

Quote:

Originally Posted by EdH

(I'm wondering if it's the Group Order Tool. . .)

That tool doesn't allow expressions, so that's unlikely.

Quote:

Originally Posted by retina

To be fair, the factordb code added those values. Whether or not the original person(s) making the query knew that they were also going to be added is not known.

I brought this up in https://www.mersenneforum.org/showpo...5&postcount=49, saying that adding data on a simple GET request violates one of the basic tenets of the mapping of HTTP methods to a database website.

chalsall · 2022-10-25, 23:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happy5214

One possibility is that they submitted a series of massive phony factor reports to bypass the limits...

The question remains why would anyone do this?

Those who do their best to offer "public facing services" deal with this kind of thing all the time.

It's just (sadly) part of the game...

Happy5214 · 2022-10-26, 04:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by chalsall

The question remains why would anyone do this?

My guess is it's someone who thinks they're trying to be helpful, but they're really just wasting everyone's time and resources and showing a complete disregard for our sanity. I'm not naming names, but...

retina · 2022-10-26, 04:24

FactorDB is solely to blame for any and all inputs that you don't like.

The FactorDB code was written to add all queried values. All of them. Without discrimination. And the users are given no indication, no warnings, no requests to be frugal, no guidelines on what the site (or you) considers acceptable.

The user sees an input box and is invited to enter a number. The user does that. Gets a result. Yay, it works. There is no blame towards the user for using the site as it presents itself.

Happy5214 · 2022-10-26, 05:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by retina

FactorDB is solely to blame for any and all inputs that you don't like.

The FactorDB code was written to add all queried values. All of them. Without discrimination. And the users are given no indication, no warnings, no requests to be frugal, no guidelines on what the site (or you) considers acceptable.

The user sees an input box and is invited to enter a number. The user does that. Gets a result. Yay, it works. There is no blame towards the user for using the site as it presents itself.

If this influx were a few numbers, or a slow trickle, I'd be inclined to concur. But adding a million entries (just 120 digits and under) in less than an hour, when the ID creation limit for an hour (per IP address) is supposed to be well under 10k, seems intentional, if not malicious. And it should be quite obvious by now to whomever is adding these numbers, if indeed these numbers are being added through the "standard" interface, that they're probably never going to see the desired result (the full factorization), unless that desired result is simply to add the junk to the database.

To clarify, abuse of a poorly designed system is still abuse.

kar_bon · 2022-11-04, 09:19

Currently someone is flooding FDB with numbers of the form 10^86-x and thats not the first time, same with +-side for others exponents.
It's a real pity Marcus is not limiting this behaviour.

2022-10-25, 12:53	#12
unconnected May 2009 Moscow, Russia 2⁴×181 Posts	Noticed this too. Someone added bunch of composites of form 10^95+n.

2022-10-25, 13:06	#14
EdH "Ed Hall" Dec 2009 Adirondack Mtns 3×7×251 Posts	There is some method to use factordb to create tables of formulas. I have seen this in the past, but don't remember how to get there. When fdb runs the tables, it automatically adds all the unfamiliar numbers to its held data.* This is not a user's fault, but may be collateral to the intended work. Also, sometimes, Markus has the db work in areas that generate smaller composites. * LaurV also mentioned this somewhere. (I'm wondering if it's the Group Order Tool. . .)

2022-10-25, 13:44	#15
unconnected May 2009 Moscow, Russia 2896₁₀ Posts	FactorDB itself has a limit of 500 entries for such requests, so someone(!) has been sending requests over and over again with different offsets to generate over 1M new composites. This should be evaluated as a malicious activity.

2022-10-26, 04:24	#20
retina Undefined "The unspeakable one" Jun 2006 My evil lair 1A23₁₆ Posts	FactorDB is solely to blame for any and all inputs that you don't like. The FactorDB code was written to add all queried values. All of them. Without discrimination. And the users are given no indication, no warnings, no requests to be frugal, no guidelines on what the site (or you) considers acceptable. The user sees an input box and is invited to enter a number. The user does that. Gets a result. Yay, it works. There is no blame towards the user for using the site as it presents itself.

2022-11-04, 09:19	#22
kar_bon Mar 2006 Germany 5·601 Posts	Currently someone is flooding FDB with numbers of the form 10^86-x and thats not the first time, same with +-side for others exponents. It's a real pity Marcus is not limiting this behaviour.