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Old 2012-08-07, 05:01   #34
LaurV
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swl551 View Post
I should point out that a perl script is external to mfaktX programs and therefore is subject to the same contraints/limitations Chasall has pointed out.

It is too bad people will go this far to discredit a utility that is free and helpful to a lot of us working toward LL factoring.
Yes, it is, if it has the same flaw.
Man, don't get us wrong. Nobody is trying to discredit your piece of software. We appreciate when people are at least trying to help other members, i.e. give something back to the community. We like your program more or less, and we like the fact that you spend the time and resources to make it and offer it to the public. But you should keep in mind that many guys here are programmers, teachers (math, physics, etc), and they have this "perfectionist" gene, they think like teachers and will squeeze any guy through a tight eye of the needle (had to look into wiki for this, in my language is "ear" of the needle, hehe). I am sure chalsall and Batalov like your program too, and pointing its flaws is not trying to discredit you or the software. We are too old to change our habits and prefer to use own tools, but are plenty of people here who may use your program. Therefore you have to take the criticism in the constructive way. The "bug" chalsall is talking about exists, and it is very easy to be reproduced, in spite of what other guys tried and failed. You make a worktodo file with 20k-50k random prime exponents in the 50M range, from 0 to 65 bits, such that each mfaktc test takes few seconds or less on a gtx580. This file is easy to be generated by a pari line like "forprime(p=50000000,51000000,write("worktodo.txt","Factor=N/A,"p",0,65"))" (there are about 56k primes, you will need "default(primelimit,51000000)" for this).This way the mfaktc will rewrite the big worktodo file very often, the most of the time will in fact be spent writing the worktodo file. Repeat for another 2-3 files, different number of exponents. Start all instances of mfaktc. During mfaktc is running, launch your program and split the work in 4 or 6 balanced files (I usually run so many instances). Put it back after (stop mfaktc of course) and compare. I tried 10 times and EVERY time it lost exponents. That is, some exponents were not found neither in the completed work (mfaktc completed a part of the work until I crawled thru the process) neither in the splitted files. Of course, this has low chances to happen in real life, one can use your piece of code for years and never run into this situation. But it can happen. OTOH, losing some assignments is no big deal, they will eventually expire and be reallocated to other cruncher, so from this point of view, the program is "safe" to be used, and good for the guys who have not much time to do the things by hand, or don't know how. If some work is lost, no big deal. But the bug exists, and there was nothing wrong doing from the people who signaled it. You have to take the constructive part, and if you can't solve it or have no time, or you don't consider it so important, then mark it in the readme, that's all. No reason to get fussy.

edit: nitpicking: "LL factoring"? I thought LL does not find factors.

Last fiddled with by LaurV on 2012-08-07 at 05:03
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Old 2012-08-07, 12:32   #35
swl551
 
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LaurV,
You see your explanation provided some information that I can use and was constructive both as learning as in tone. Other comments were loaded questions, vague or directed against using .net technologies. Those types of comments are not beneficial as they work to discredit the utility overall and not provide a information on how to resolve the limitations. Based on chasal's insight I did update my readme file recommended it best to stop your mfaktX process before performing actions where filres are changed. That is no different than if you used notepad in windows. My utility just peforms it more quickly and will less oppurtunity for human error when manually editing files. I set on on this journey simplify a process that might keep people that are not coding/scriting gurus in the TF game.

However I have stated that my util never locks files and will handle an exception given by OS if a file is locked. Given that condition how are lines in the file being lost?
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Old 2012-08-07, 13:46   #36
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As one whose "programming" is limited to simple batch files I appreciate the efforts of all those who develop and offer software for general use. By observing and participating in GIMPS in general, and GPU72 in particular, I have gotten some idea of the meticulous demands of coding if errors are to be avoided.

In line with this, I do note that chalsall is usually his own most ferocious critic. We have all seen his references to "SPE's" (Stupid Programmer Errors) regarding his own work. I've also learned just how nit-picky one has to be when a misplaced or missing bracket or quotation mark can wreck things.

Then too, I have committed plenty of SOE's (Stupid Operator Errors) just in shuffling text from file to file and submitting (or failing to submit) results. I do have a batch file to collect results, and another to collect worktodo contents so I can search out orphaned assignments. There is still work I do by hand so opportunities to screw up abound.

All that said, I find the mfaktX app useful. It will take a few more days to see how the ordering of assignments (dates) works out using it. Since this whole project is a pastime and amusement for me, it is no problem if I still have to shuffle things by hand once in a while. In keeping track of dates chalsall's Assignments page is invaluable since old assignments can be sorted to the top of the list.

So let me just express my awe and appreciation for ALL who provide their skills and code to GIMPS. I won't try to name them because I wouldn't want to leave someone out.
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Old 2012-08-07, 22:17   #37
swl551
 
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Default cautionary tale.....

8/7/2012.... cautionary tale.....

Feedback from the EXPERTS has convinced me to clarify the best procedure for using mfaktXapp......

To ensure that mfaktXapp does not cause any data loss from worktodo.txt or results.txt it is best to stop mfakto/mfaktc
instances before ADDING, BALANCING or EXPORTING data using mfaktXapp. Although mfaktXapp handles file IO very carefully to
prevent data loss it is really secondary to mfaktX applications and could interfere if both applications perform IO at the
same time.

(script advocates just look away now....)
By using mfaktXapp instead of hand editing files you benefit from a repeatable process, quick changes and so much time saved
your computer will be able to spend more time doing Trial Factoring.

Scott
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Old 2012-08-07, 22:28   #38
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Like JMLX, I already had the habit of checking ETA's in mfaktc before messing with worktodo or results.txt. I am still integrating mfaktX into my work flow, but I am fairly confident of data integrity short of outright personal clumsiness/stupidity or power failure at a critical moment.
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Old 2012-08-07, 22:37   #39
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We tried to use mfaktXapp and now our television remote doesn't work.

What's up with that?



Edit: Nevermind! The remote control just needed new batteries.
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Old 2012-08-07, 22:45   #40
kladner
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xyzzy View Post
We tried to use mfaktXapp and now our television remote doesn't work.

What's up with that?

@Xyzzy [LOUD RASPBERRY]

Last fiddled with by kladner on 2012-08-07 at 22:48
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Old 2012-08-07, 22:47   #41
Batalov
 
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Mike, you forgot not only batteries but a full .NET upgrade as well.
You are better off buying a new remote.

On the bright side, though, we now have a fully matured forum user with advanced mastery of caps lock, colors and font sizes. This makes the message so much clearer!

Last fiddled with by Batalov on 2012-08-07 at 22:50
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Old 2012-08-08, 00:18   #42
swl551
 
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Batalov let me compile a special version just for you. I'll even do it in .NET 2.0 so you won't have any hesitation. I swear it won't contain anything that might improve your people skills.
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Old 2012-08-08, 00:20   #43
henryzz
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It should theoretically be possible to compile this with an earlier version of .net. I imagine it could be compiled for the default version of .net for vista and windows 7.
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Old 2012-08-08, 00:23   #44
chalsall
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Quote:
Originally Posted by henryzz View Post
It should theoretically be possible to compile this with an earlier version of .net. I imagine it could be compiled for the default version of .net for vista and windows 7.
How about a version for Linux?

(That's meant to be funny....)
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