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Old 2013-05-08, 14:39   #34
kladner
 
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It got my attention that they've started with secondary Philippines languages (Cebuano.)
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Old 2013-05-08, 15:13   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xilman View Post
Nine syllables, afaict, so comparable with "She sells sea shells on the sea shore". It's longer by that measure.

One of my favourites in English, "The sixth sheik's sheep's sick" is only five.
The version I learned is "The sixth sheik's sixth sheep's sick".

One I heard on TV recently, which I rather like: "The spaceship chip shop sells spaceship-shaped chips".

The following two are my own creation: "The new Unununium munitions emit muon emissions" and "Basra Badgers wear basalt badges."
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Old 2013-06-01, 10:08   #36
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With the exception of a couple of scraped copies of this thread, this is the only web use of Fremdsprachengrübelei for Foreign Language Musings.

I went back to this thread just now because I am about to stage another educational incursion into Duolingo's language site. They've since added a few things. They just released an Android application (there is an Iphone one too) They offer: Spanish, French, German, Portuguese, Italian, for English speakers and they also teach English for speakers of Spanish, French, Italian and Portuguese.

I needed to refer to the first post in this thread because I again wanted to find the handy foreign language keyboard accent utilities that I'd mentioned before. These are free from http://www.onehourprogramming.com/. Conveniently, they have added an Italian accents utility since I was there last so I plan to use that with the recently offered Italian lessons on Duolingo. So I have just now downloaded their German, Spanish, and Italian accent utilities. These are not necessary for the Duolingo site but are a lot easier than switching the keyboard language or mousing over to click on an accented letter. These use Tab, Shift and Caps keys in conjunction with an ordinary letter that you press to generate the the accented character input. It is pretty easy to pick up.

The other day I was on Duolingo briefly, trying to do a little French and I did very poorly. We'll see how that goes. Outside of the lessons there is a top menu selection for vocabulary so I should go there first to dust off the cobwebs. The top menu choices are:

Language (choose a language to work in)
Home (look at your skill tree, progress, social stream, etc.)
Immersion (read and translate articles)
Discussion (forum-ish)
Vocabulary (practice your weakest words (it keeps track) or look at examples of usage)

If you try Duolingo, be aware that there is mouseover information on words. As I recall, that includes verb tables. They said somewhere that they are working on more complete cheat-sheets.
The founder of Duolingo was just on Reddit a couple of days ago for a question and answer session"
http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comment...amed_luis_von/
Quote:
Hi Reddit! It’s me again, Luis von Ahn. I’m the co-founder/CEO of Duolingo, which aims to provide the best way to learn languages to everybody for free. I think that education makes people’s lives better, and shouldn’t be limited only to those who have the money to learn.
Today I’m especially excited because we just launched the Duolingo Android app. You can download it from Google Play here. If offers full language courses that are 100% free, with no ads, hidden charges, or BS “in-app purchases.”
You may be interested to know that there’s an awesome Duolingo subreddit.
I'm also a computer science professor at Carnegie Mellon, and I'm from Guatemala. I developed CAPTCHA and reCAPTCHA (acquired by Google).
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Old 2016-07-29, 04:02   #37
only_human
 
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Here is my progress so far learning languages from English at Duolingo.com
(The only available one I haven't actually taken for a test spin so far is Irish)
Quote:
LANGUAGES
(levels go up to 25)

Spanish - Level 21
French - Level 20
German - Level 17
Esperanto - Level 11
Italian - Level 9
Portuguese - Level 8
Russian - Level 7
Norwegian (Bokmål) - Level 7
Swedish - Level 7
Danish - Level 6
Vietnamese - Level 6
Dutch - Level 6
Ukrainian - Level 6
Turkish - Level 6
Polish - Level 6
Hebrew - Level 1
edit: Actually they've also added Hungarian since I last looked. Greek is running about a month late and may be available soon.

Last fiddled with by only_human on 2016-07-29 at 04:23
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Old 2016-07-29, 05:49   #38
LaurV
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Quote:
Originally Posted by only_human View Post
(levels go up to 25)
But they go exponentially. You can reach level 10, or 11, or 12 in one-two days, then you need more and more time, some immersion, etc. You need 10 times effort to reach level 25 compared with reaching level 11, only comparing the points, and not considering that lessons get more and more complex/complicate and difficult.

Plus, once the language tree is finished (about level 15, you can finish a tree, depending on language, some trees are longer), you need to wait for "old" things to pop up again for "review"-ing. So that is a lot of time. I was level 18 at German, but erased the complete tree (it was not complete, by "complete" I mean as much I was able to do at that point of time) because I was literally "stuck" there, I could not advance a bit, I could not remember anything during reviews, doing mistakes for reviews, therefore more reviews came daily than I could keep up with. To be clear, that is not a guilt of Duo team, those people put in a tremendous effort, and the German course there, it is not "very good", but "very VERY good". Just I am too stupid to learn that language. So, I deleted it all, and started fresh.

I still can't understand how you (personally, not the general 'you') can do 6000 points in one week (actually, in less than 5 days, considering the time difference from my place to yours). [this is said in a tone that includes a lot of admiration!]. Anyhow, congratulations. You put a lot of effort and time into that.

I can only manage maximum 800-1200 points per week, this includes learning "English from Romanian", where I make double score because I do "timed tests" (racing against the clock gives you double amount of points per lesson, but it takes a bit longer than doing a normal lesson, timed lessons are longer). Of course, I am also doing German and Thai on memrise.com (also, very-very good German course there!) which somehow divides the time, already not much available. But I am proud that I learned in the last 4-5 months more "languages" (especially German) than I learned in the last 30 years together, before this period.

So, to contribute positively to the discussion, here are the amount of points for each level on Duolingo (I have them wallpaper on the screen, in Post-it, hehe):

(using code tag to keep the spaces)
Code:
Level  Points  Todo for     Total at
              next Level   next level
 1 -      0 +      60 →       60       
 2 -     60 +      60 →      120       
 3 -    120 +      80 →      200       
 4 -    200 +     100 →      300       
 5 -    300 +     150 →      450       
 6 -    450 +     300 →      750       
 7 -    750 +     375 →    1 125       
 8 -  1 125 +     525 →    1 650       
 9 -  1 650 +     600 →    2 250       
10 -  2 250 +     750 →    3 000       
11 -  3 000 +     900 →    3 900       
12 -  3 900 +   1 000 →    4 900       
13 -  4 900 +   1 100 →    6 000       
14 -  6 000 +   1 500 →    7 500       
15 -  7 500 +   1 500 →    9 000       
16 -  9 000 +   1 500 →   10 500       
17 - 10 500 +   1 500 →   12 000       
18 - 12 000 +   1 500 →   13 500       
19 - 13 500 +   1 500 →   15 000       
20 - 15 000 +   2 000 →   17 000       
21 - 17 000 +   2 000 →   19 000       
22 - 19 000 +   3 500 →   22 500       
23 - 22 500 +   3 500 →   26 000       
24 - 26 000 +   4 000 →   30 000       
25 - 30 000 → …     
[edit: formatted the table with non-ps font and added header, it was a bit confuse]

Last fiddled with by LaurV on 2016-07-29 at 06:16
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Old 2016-07-29, 06:20   #39
only_human
 
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The reason I have so many points this week is I really wanted to take Spanish to a useful level so I started listening to some English novels on tape that I know well while I tried to follow along in the Spanish in a translation of the written novel.

What happened is I got a splitting headache and I noticed that Dresden of the Dresden Files estremece (shudders) all over the place.

I pushed through a lot of Spanish on my lesson tree which I could do because I have only been on fire for the last eight days unlike you being on fire for 235 days. In the days I'm not there my language tree rots so I get to review the lower level stuff too when I refresh it.

I do no immersion translation at all. I'm using a tablet and I can't easily jump around windows to check my work.

Then after this study wasn't enough I started and then completed the English from Spanish tree. That only took two or three days and became completely golden at only level 11 or so with perhaps no needed repetition at all. That gave a bit more vocabulary and let me review low-level stuff yet again and it hit a few different sentence patterns.

That still didn't click in my head enough and I really want to take it up another level this time so I started working on the French from Spanish tree. That lets me hit the Spanish content again and lets me compare and contrast Romance languages while minimizing distractions of my native English anywhere on the screen.

Unfortunately I bogged down around level ten so I paused my struggles there and went to refresh my French from English tree so that my French will be better prior to returning to my French from Spanish struggles. I've been been working hard for the last few days on that French from English tree. I've almost got it back to fully golden on that tree so in less than a day I will then return to the French from Spanish tree. Assuming I subsequently push that through to gold successfully, I will then do the Spanish from French tree to hit the content yet again without any English and to pick up a little more non-overlapping coverage.

All those struggles are why I have so many points these last several days. It was a good distraction from a miserable heatwave.

Last fiddled with by only_human on 2016-07-29 at 06:23 Reason: grammar, grammer everwhere and not a stop to think.
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Old 2016-07-29, 06:39   #40
LaurV
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Ha, it looks like you bought all the labor badges!** That is a freaking hell of a work! I wish I could have so much time and dedication! OTOH, romance languages would be easy for me, being very close to mother tongue. I could do a "credit hunt" by raiding some of those trees, but I have enough headache with my German already... I don't want to make my life more complicate than it is...

----------
** An online game I was playing many years ago (puzzlepirates.com) allowed your characters to work in a shop (factory), in that virtual world, if you were owning a "labor badge" which you could buy with "virtual money", which you also make in the game, doing other activities and tasks. You could also run your own shop, but that is another story. Of course, working in a shop, you could make more "virtual money". And buy more labor badges, for all characters, you could play with a whole team. The good part of a labor badge, comparing with another badges (like the one to play cards in a casino, or inn, for example) was that, if you owned one, and took a job at a shop, the effect of the badge would not be canceled when you log off. Other badges were counted in "login days", so if you don't login a year, you still have it when you come back. The labor badge was counted in "calendar days", so it expired after 30 days, either if you login or not, in the game. But when you log out, its effect still lasted in the game. So, you could technically buy a labor badge, get a job in the shop/factory, then logout, and your character(s) would continue to make money 24 hours a day, as long as the shop had work to do for you. As one user could control more characters, it was customary to buy "all the labor badges available" to make money (virtual of course) during you were sleeping in real life. Therefore, as almost everybody had 2-3 characters to control in the game, one guy working "72 hours per day" was very common.

Last fiddled with by LaurV on 2016-07-29 at 06:45 Reason: Sorry for a too long explanation of the labor badge stuff...
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Old 2016-07-30, 20:33   #41
only_human
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LaurV View Post
Ha, it looks like you bought all the labor badges!** That is a freaking hell of a work! I wish I could have so much time and dedication! OTOH, romance languages would be easy for me, being very close to mother tongue. I could do a "credit hunt" by raiding some of those trees, but I have enough headache with my German already... I don't want to make my life more complicate than it is...
Actually the reverse tree's sentence comments are especially helpful.

Let me explain with some background first.

Generally comments about a sentence are about three quarters about the wrong language. Here's what happens. Suppose you speak English and are studying Spanish and have trouble with a Spanish sentence. The sensible thing would be talking in the comments about the Spanish words and grammar - and there's a good deal of that...

But perversely people will spend more time talking about their native English and regional differences and disputing various translations or if certain attempted answers should have been accepted based of what they think about English.

Get this - they get bogged down talking about the native language that they already know and delve into nuances in it as in "there was little water in the desert so we brought a little water with us" - intead of investing time in the language that they are trying to learn.

It's quite natural; they know their native language better and have genuine disputes about semantics.

But in the reverse language tree the situation is flipped. If I, as a native speaker of English, work on the learn-English-from-Spanish tree, the comments are full of native Spanish speakers speaking about the nuances of the Spanish side of the translated sentence. So the comments are much richer in what I really want to learn - Spanish.

Last fiddled with by only_human on 2016-07-30 at 21:07 Reason: if only I could say what I mean reasonably well without needing to revise, my daydreams of being a writer would be better.
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Old 2016-07-30, 22:59   #42
only_human
 
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I've just realised that I may given the impression that I've spent a lot of time on reverse language trees.

Actually this is mainly a new approach for me. Here's all the work so far that I've expended on reverse trees:

French from Spanish
Quote:
Francés - Nivel 12
Siguiente nivel: 610 EXP
EXP total: 4290 EXP
English from Spanish
Quote:
Inglés - Nivel 11
Siguiente nivel: 230 EXP
EXP total: 3670 EXP
English from Japanese:
Quote:
英語 - レベル10
次のレベル: 699 XP
XP合計: 2301 XP
So as you see I have not earned a ton of training points on them. Even so it is the focus my current approach. I have high hopes that this will jar me out of a rut. Wish me luck.

Last fiddled with by only_human on 2016-07-30 at 23:01
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Old 2016-07-31, 06:45   #43
LaurV
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Quote:
Originally Posted by only_human View Post
Actually the reverse tree's ...
That is a very good observation/advice which I must remember when my German will be advanced enough to be able to handle the reverse tree. Up to now, I didn't think to it, except that I was waiting for "Ro for En speakers" and "En for Th speakers" courses to get out of incubator, hoping that both of them can help me improve my "reverse", hehe. But i didn't think to go "En for German speakers". I will try sooner or later.

Edit: have you tried memrise.com? They have very nice Spanish course there too (the one made by the site's owner, on memrise everybody can create his own course, and they are not only about languages, some idiot made a course to learn the multiplication table up to 100 times 100, haha... But the language courses created by memrise itself, they are very good (those on 7 levels).

Last fiddled with by LaurV on 2016-07-31 at 06:50
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Old 2016-07-31, 08:37   #44
only_human
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LaurV View Post
Edit: have you tried memrise.com? They have very nice Spanish course there too (the one made by the site's owner, on memrise everybody can create his own course, and they are not only about languages, some idiot made a course to learn the multiplication table up to 100 times 100, haha... But the language courses created by memrise itself, they are very good (those on 7 levels).
It's been so long since of logged on Memrise. Here's what comes up on my profile:
Quote:
All the Correlatives in Esperanto
by PandaPandaInnit Esperanto

Comprehensive German Duolingo Vocabulary
by bakpao German

Duolingo Esperanto
by jl45 Esperanto

Emotions in Japanese
by blessedfalcon Romaji

Esperanto Grammar
by Memchilla Esperanto

IPA symbols
by coati Miscellaneous

Learn German for Polyglots • No Typing
by EasyAcademy German

Learn German Intermediate • No Typing
by EasyAcademy German

Pitch Perfect
by darkstarricco Art, Music & Literature

The Partial Polyglot
by mkp28 Other Language
edit: now that I am correctly reading my profile page it looks more familiar.

It's been too long since I've been at Memrise...

My feelings are that they are exceptionally good on training word lists.

Last fiddled with by only_human on 2016-07-31 at 08:51 Reason: misread my profile page. removed comments about suggested courses that I mistakenly thought were on my profile page.
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