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Old 2005-10-28, 01:19   #23
L9_
 

5·929 Posts
Default 15k Move reply to members

Kosmaj,
>The project is looking for k, not n, that produce many primes.

The project description clearly has stated all along, that we are
looking for k, AND n that produce many primes.
Not just fixed k, but also fixed n. Furthermore k, is a value and
not nessesarily an integer.

L9 has spent lots more CPU time than any of you, in reguards to team efforts.
In order to uphold perfection, we perform double-checks on completed
15k reservations. Our results of George's acuracy rate was expected.
The reason you don't remember anything, is because you essentially
jumped into things in midstream.


lsoule,
You dont have to shift from the reservation page, but ofcourse
that's up to you.

We thought the Owner issue, may be hard to answer too.
A. Shane is the founder, and an active member, and has been working
behind the scenes, while delveloping RMA.NET for future members.

B. Since Shane has the soul password for the descriptive data the
answer is simple. If this forum were to continue claiming it's the
true 15k forum, it would look wrong because the actual project data
says so.
It's doubtfull legal recourse would apply, nor would I seek it.



grobie,
The prover code does belong to the 15k members, and Shane happens
to be one of them.
As a member he must have access to the forum too. Right?
If you all don't care about the founders voice, then you really
shouldn't expect a free ride with 15k anyway.



thommy,
There are a lot of reservations about the .NET install requirement,
but in the near future it will be common.
This move is the best thing that's happened to 15k. Ya, ya...wide
open for an insult here.



Citrix,
Thanks for the level-headed comment



Grobie,
Goodbye



Cruelty,
Sorry you don't like the forum.
However, there are no rules concerning participation, and RMA.NET is
not required.
You could start a new project from scratch, and really show those
15k'ers.
Completely understandable.
And some others may want to ride the 15k wave, and keep the high
number of primes.



Paul,
blah, blah, and/or blah.
With dellusions of grandure, that someday he will actually work for
Microsoft...



Templus,
We didn't expect all members to move to a new forum.



Joshua2,
That's ok too. I dont mind if you contribute to the prover code, or
not.



garo
This is slanderous talk. Please don't deform Shane's character.
There were no threats, and the moderators lied about what was said.

It was never a promise to stay within the 15k forum, and the
previous ban was very similar to this one.
Here's how it went:

Shane gets insulted, then asks the person and moderators to stop
it, and then after nothing happens, a reply is sent with an equal
and opposite post.
This is used as an excuse to eliminate Shane from the GIMPS
competition.
It backfired this time, and it has now heightend the competition
level, and spurred new development already.
Shane's not about to beg, to be part of the project he created.
Sorry folks.
 
Old 2005-10-28, 01:32   #24
grobie
 
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Sep 2005
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bye, nobody said anything about free rides, least me. I agree founder does need to be a part of the fourum, however yahoo is not the answer, and never will work (well never say never) but I really doubt it. I had never commented about what happened because I know there are 2 sides to everything. I just wish that it was brought to the forum and decided by all members instead of being shoved down everyones throat.

Last fiddled with by grobie on 2005-10-28 at 01:39
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Old 2005-10-28, 02:35   #25
Kosmaj
 
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Nov 2003

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To all 15k members on this forum who don't want to join Shane

Please keep on testing whatever files you have been working on until now. If you find new, reportable primes please withold them (don't report them to the Top-5000) until we decide what to do. If we decide to start a new project we will need at least one such fresh prime to open the project.

Thanks.
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Old 2005-10-28, 09:33   #26
xilman
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May 2003
Down not across

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Quote:
Originally Posted by L9_
Paul,
blah, blah, and/or blah.
With dellusions of grandure, that someday he will actually work for
Microsoft...
http://www.ieee-security.org/Cipher/...Eurocrypt.html

Anyone interested can dig up other evidence of my having worked for Microsoft Research. I chose this one because the first paper on the program for that day of the conference was about the first factorization of a hard 512-bit integer.


Paul

Last fiddled with by xilman on 2005-10-28 at 09:35
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Old 2005-10-28, 09:41   #27
akruppa
 
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"Nancy"
Aug 2002
Alexandria

2,467 Posts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by L9_
Paul,
blah, blah, and/or blah.
With dellusions of grandure, that someday he will actually work for
Microsoft...
This guy is killing me... Shane, do you realise what a fool you are making of yourself?

Alex
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Old 2005-10-28, 09:52   #28
garo
 
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L9_,
If you wish I can post all the reports you sent to the mods. We can then let everyone decide. In the meantime those interested can take a look at:
http://www.mersenneforum.org/showthread.php?t=4858
While the insults therein are incompetent and not cause for banning it becomes hard not to do so if we keep in mind TTn's attacks on George last time. You can do a search of the forums if you like.

Also, the moderators do not wish to harm the 15k project in any way and we all are very happy to provide any and all kind of support. We also acknowledge that the project may have been started by Shane/TTn (I am not 100% sure on this) and in that case he should have a say in the project. We would like to find out a way in which this can be worked out.
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Old 2005-10-28, 11:12   #29
L9_
 

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garo,
The project was started by only Shane.
Thomas Ritchel (L8)would be the only other major founder, that joined after L9. L9 actually was L7, but Chris Caldwell or his system made an error, and the prover code L7 had to be recycled, and L9 was issued to Shane.

We're open to a compromise, and honestly appologize for all the trouble.
The verbal agreement between Mike, and Shane Findley entailed that George Woltman was not to be insulted, or his program Prime95.
It was however mentioned that TTn should take it easy when posting.
This had been obeyed for a time, and now that he has become a developer, a lot more is understood about the mechanics.
There is no need to question authority anymore.
Shane has a great respect for George.
The tools being used for these projects, may be questionable.

L9 is having a group meeting, in person this weekend to talk about changing the home/forum status. Funding is always an issue, but it seems warranted.
 
Old 2005-10-28, 11:45   #30
Kosmaj
 
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Nov 2003

2·1,811 Posts
Default A proposal for Shane

Shane,
I have the following proposal for you.
You were banned here but it has nothing to do with "15k Search" forum here, nor with any of its members. You cannot post using your old TTn nick and you don't like to use your new nick L9_. So, you want to move to Yahoo. Cool! You and those who want to join you go to Yahoo and search for 15k primes there while those who don't want to join you stay here. As for the form of numbers to search for I suggest the following division.

Shane on Yahoo
1) 15k*2^n-1 for all fixed n. [Since I joined 15k in December 2003 not one such search has been started but I found some numbers on the stats page with fixed n=150000 and 144444 IIRC.] They are yours.

2) You can take with you and work on all exponents listed on JOIN US, CHOOSE A CANDIDATE by Robinson weight page. We only have to find a way to handle already reserved k's.

Kosmaj and the others who prefer to stay here
1) We'd like to proceed working on k=2995125705 and k=210885. We also have k=355424355 but it was sieved only to n=500k and there is almost nothing left there.

2) We'll come up with new 15k exponents shortly. As the matter of fact me, Larry and segmtfault have been sieving 16 completely new k's (not listed on the above page and with no reported primes). In about 36 hrs from now the sieving will be complete to p=600bn. The exponents involved are 200-400k.

Both the people who join Shane on Yahoo, and those who stay here will continue reporting primes using their existing 15k prover's codes.

It will be nice if on the project's web page on Top-5000 in the explanation you include the URL of this forum. Please also remove the "don't be fooled" clause. I'd also like to ask the guys at DC web site to include our URL within the text about 15k.

This is the best I can think of. Please tell me what do you think.

Kosmaj
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Old 2005-10-28, 12:10   #31
Thomas11
 
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Feb 2003

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I'm a bit concerned about the things going on here!

First of all, we should note that the original idea of the 15k-Search project, originating to Shane Findley (L9), was to look for k-values divisable by 15, that produce a lot of primes k*2^n-1. This was back in 2003.

When Shane was banned, the project lost it's moderator and shortly after that a few of it's members. There was a follow-up, currently moderated by Kosmaj, Jocelyn Larouche and Larry Soule.
This "new" 15k-Search divided into a few branches, e.g.: the search for low weight Riesel primes, the completion of Hans Riesels/Wilfrid Kellers "list of primes k*2^n-1 for k=1-300", and still the seach for values of k that produce of lot of primes, of which the latter one is related to Shanes original 15k-Search.

To my opinion there should be at least a distinct differentiation between values of k which are divisable by 15 (and therefore still contribute to one of the "15k-Searches") and which are not. For the latter there should be a distict project name (and project code at Chris Caldwells database). Most of you may have already realized that I never used one of my "15k-Search" prover codes (L8 or L19) for primes not divisable by 15 (and you know, there are a few megabit primes for small and low weight k-values for L10)...

Nevertheless, we should find some arrangement with Shane. Speaking for myself, I would still submit new primes using the "15k" prover codes, as long as k is divisable by 15.
Though, I'm currently not looking for such numbers...

Thomas Ritschel (L8, L10, etc. ...)

Last fiddled with by Thomas11 on 2005-10-28 at 12:11
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Old 2005-10-28, 13:57   #32
garo
 
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Kosmaj/Thomas11 - you guys are talking of breaking up a project which is actually more to the point than my post. So I am talking my discussion offline. I will keep this thread posted as and when things develop.
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Old 2005-10-28, 14:13   #33
L9_
 

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>1) 15k*2^n-1 for all fixed n. [Since I joined 15k in December 2003 not one such search has been started but I found some

>numbers on the stats page with fixed n=150000 and 144444 IIRC.] They are yours.

No they are not.
Fixed n searches have been started and posted, you just ignored them.

FYI Others will often follow, that kind of suggestive behaviour.
How could Shane introduce new members here into a biased group, that has blacklisted him?
Ofcourse recruiting has not started yet, until the project/home/forum/RMA.NET is fully ready.
The new recruits may not be of your peers anyway, so another forum was already in the plans.


> You can take with you and work on all exponents listed on JOIN US, CHOOSE A CANDIDATE by Robinson weight page. We only

>have to find a way to handle already reserved k's.

Reserved k's may have to be reworked a little, but the native forum will yield to this one. That's only fair.


>We'll come up with new 15k exponents shortly. As the matter of fact me, Larry and segmtfault have been sieving 16

>completely new k's (not listed on the above page and with no reported primes). In about 36 hrs from now the sieving will be

>complete to p=600bn. The exponents involved are 200-400k.

Sieving to a p bound, is not the optimum stategy for sieving, but that's your choice here.
As a leader Shane would not be endorsing the stategy.


>...the people who join Shane on Yahoo, and those who stay here will continue reporting primes using their existing 15k

>prover's codes.

That would make future individuals, and the current group satisfied.


>It will be nice if on the project's web page on Top-5000 in the explanation you include the URL of this forum. Please also

>remove the "don't be fooled" clause. I'd also like to ask the guys at DC web site to include our URL within the text about

>15k.
>This is the best I can think of. Please tell me what do you think.

A link to this forum from both sites is reasonable, under the following conditions:
There is a clearer specification between the main forum for future novice users, and the previously existing 15k forum here.
This will need some work, and must be discussed by L9 collectively.

Additional request required
Any posts by TTn, that are in the "Crank" bin, must be taken out.
This is not to be recorded, as the true character of someone who has developed a usefull program, in the field of Mersenne

primes. This takes either extreme talent or much time.
Shane may have more time than talent, but it adds up with an above average IQ and autism.
This area relating to Mersenne's is the Riesel Mersenne Algorithm, and has been verified, and endorsed by John Forbes Nash.
Perhaps, this is percieved wrong,... in fact it probably is.

John's return letter to Shane starts out with the first line:
"At first I thought it was another nut letter, but then I researched your work on primes."
You may ask him by postal mail, to verify the correspondence. He will email you back.
If you do, send one letter only as a group please.

Shane had learned, not to waste time on useless theorems etc, by that point.
So the question was sent to a true authority in the field.
RMA.NET would not exist if this letter was not replied to.

BTW. He also worked on mathematical equations, to prove the existence of GOD.
Some people did think he was still crazy, but his work was based upon the rare probability of certain events occuring.
He had a much more involved heuristic too! Be carefull when assuming someone is a "crankster".








Thomas,
Acutally the project description never said 15k, needed to be evenly divisable by 15. ...searching for values k... not integers, as would be the definition.
You did seem to impose a self restriction to the form.
 
 

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