Fines based on a percentage of net worth

jasong · 2013-05-29, 07:42

I don't remember where I read it, I think it was talking about an Arabian country, but a guy got a ticket that cost about $200k American dollars for going over the speed limit. The reason the fine was so incredibly high is because your net worth is taken into account when they fine you there. Can't remember where it was, just the approximate fine amount.

I was wondering if the forum members think it would be a good idea to base fines on a person's net worth. So maybe there'd be a minimum amount and a percentage amount like half a percent or 2%. So speeding tickets and any other sort of ticket would be affected by how much money you're worth.

What do you think about it?

xilman · 2013-05-29, 08:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by jasong

I don't remember where I read it, I think it was talking about an Arabian country, but a guy got a ticket that cost about $200k American dollars for going over the speed limit. The reason the fine was so incredibly high is because your net worth is taken into account when they fine you there. Can't remember where it was, just the approximate fine amount.

I was wondering if the forum members think it would be a good idea to base fines on a person's net worth. So maybe there'd be a minimum amount and a percentage amount like half a percent or 2%. So speeding tickets and any other sort of ticket would be affected by how much money you're worth.

What do you think about it?

I think those who can afford to do so will arrange not to be worth very much.

retina · 2013-05-29, 08:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by jasong

I don't remember where I read it, I think it was talking about an Arabian country, but a guy got a ticket that cost about $200k American dollars for going over the speed limit. The reason the fine was so incredibly high is because your net worth is taken into account when they fine you there. Can't remember where it was, just the approximate fine amount.

I was wondering if the forum members think it would be a good idea to base fines on a person's net worth. So maybe there'd be a minimum amount and a percentage amount like half a percent or 2%. So speeding tickets and any other sort of ticket would be affected by how much money you're worth.

What do you think about it?

xilman's solution notwithstanding there is also the thing to remember that a lot of wealthy people can arrange to not need to pay such fines at all.

jasong · 2013-05-29, 08:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by retina

xilman's solution notwithstanding there is also the thing to remember that a lot of wealthy people can arrange to not need to pay such fines at all.

In terms of chauffeurs(no idea how to spell that, gave up) I'd fine the guy that supplies their paycheck.

(googled the proper way to spell chauffeur, still looks totally wrong.)

retina · 2013-05-29, 08:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by jasong

In terms of chauffeurs(no idea how to spell that, gave up) I'd fine the guy that supplies their paycheck.

(googled the proper way to spell chauffeur, still looks totally wrong.)

So you would punish a person that is not even in control of the vehicle? That creates absolutely no incentive for a chauffeur to care about their driving. I doubt that that would reduce the incidence of speeding (or indeed any other form of bad driving).

Also, does chauffeur include a taxi driver? A limo driver? A personal employee of big-boss(TM) driving someone else (say, a foreign visitor) to a hotel?

cheesehead · 2013-05-30, 02:54

(Withdrew the post.)

Puzzle-Peter · 2013-05-30, 04:48

Here in Germany, speeding tickets and the like are fixed price items. But there are also things where you get charged in "Tagessätze" (plural) where one "Tagessatz" (singular) is basically your daily income. So you might be charged e.g. 50 times your daily income resulting in two persons committing the same offence and paying vastly different fines. The idea is that to drive the message home the fine needs to hurt a bit and therefore should be in proportion to what you can afford.

I'm not a lawyer so don't ask me for details but I think there's always a court involved in this. All the "simple tickets" are fixed price.

And to answer your question: I think it's a good idea to take into account what somebody is worth because I personally know some rich peoples kid who got stopped for driving his motorbike without a helmet (which is not allowed here). When the police asked him why he had no helmet on he handed over the 50 D-Marks (yeah, old story...) and answered "because I can afford to do so". Learning effect - none. It was just too cheap for him. On the other side it would be ridiculous to charge a very high sum and get people in financial troubles for small things. So yes, I rather like this idea.

jasonp · 2013-05-31, 14:23

Sounds nice, but
- who keeps the list of everyone's net worth? What would that database be worth?
- how is your entry calculated so that you can't game it easily?
- do you want public officials like police officers to know how much money you have?
- what if lots of your net worth is tied up in something illiquid, like a house or business? Now your speeding ticket requires an appraisal of those things

Remember, in the US you're taxed based on money you make, not on how much you have. Those could be very different figures, so the IRS doesn't know net worth figures.

jasong · 2013-05-31, 14:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by retina

So you would punish a person that is not even in control of the vehicle? That creates absolutely no incentive for a chauffeur to care about their driving. I doubt that that would reduce the incidence of speeding (or indeed any other form of bad driving).

Also, does chauffeur include a taxi driver? A limo driver? A personal employee of big-boss(TM) driving someone else (say, a foreign visitor) to a hotel?

A person's job tends to be regarded as more important than an individual traffic ticket, so this would tend to cause people who are responsible for other people's stuff to be more careful. Getting fired is a way worse penalty than a simple traffic ticket.

Besides, the employer could simply take it out of the driver's paycheck. but the employer would at least be aware of the situation, which they should be considering the driver works for them.

TimSorbet · 2013-05-31, 15:06

This may be what was referred to: http://www.autoblog.com/2010/08/13/s...ing-fine-ever/
It is based on the offender's income, not his net worth. As that is tracked in most places for income tax purposes, I'm sure it's easier to come by.

retina · 2013-05-31, 15:12

Was it Steve Jobs that had a yearly income of $1.00? If not him then I'm sure there are other CEOs that have comparatively tiny incomes. Net worth can be transferred also. I don't see how it is workable for people that can wangle income and asset values to their advantage.

2013-05-29, 07:42	#1
jasong "Jason Goatcher" Mar 2005 3·7·167 Posts	Fines based on a percentage of net worth I don't remember where I read it, I think it was talking about an Arabian country, but a guy got a ticket that cost about $200k American dollars for going over the speed limit. The reason the fine was so incredibly high is because your net worth is taken into account when they fine you there. Can't remember where it was, just the approximate fine amount. I was wondering if the forum members think it would be a good idea to base fines on a person's net worth. So maybe there'd be a minimum amount and a percentage amount like half a percent or 2%. So speeding tickets and any other sort of ticket would be affected by how much money you're worth. What do you think about it? Last fiddled with by jasong on 2013-05-29 at 07:43

2013-05-30, 02:54	#6
cheesehead "Richard B. Woods" Aug 2002 Wisconsin USA 17014₈ Posts	(Withdrew the post.) Last fiddled with by cheesehead on 2013-05-30 at 02:58

2013-05-31, 14:23	#8
jasonp Tribal Bullet Oct 2004 3²×5×79 Posts	Sounds nice, but - who keeps the list of everyone's net worth? What would that database be worth? - how is your entry calculated so that you can't game it easily? - do you want public officials like police officers to know how much money you have? - what if lots of your net worth is tied up in something illiquid, like a house or business? Now your speeding ticket requires an appraisal of those things Remember, in the US you're taxed based on money you make, not on how much you have. Those could be very different figures, so the IRS doesn't know net worth figures. Last fiddled with by jasonp on 2013-05-31 at 14:26

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2013-05-30, 04:48	#7
Puzzle-Peter Jun 2009 2²·5²·7 Posts	Here in Germany, speeding tickets and the like are fixed price items. But there are also things where you get charged in "Tagessätze" (plural) where one "Tagessatz" (singular) is basically your daily income. So you might be charged e.g. 50 times your daily income resulting in two persons committing the same offence and paying vastly different fines. The idea is that to drive the message home the fine needs to hurt a bit and therefore should be in proportion to what you can afford. I'm not a lawyer so don't ask me for details but I think there's always a court involved in this. All the "simple tickets" are fixed price. And to answer your question: I think it's a good idea to take into account what somebody is worth because I personally know some rich peoples kid who got stopped for driving his motorbike without a helmet (which is not allowed here). When the police asked him why he had no helmet on he handed over the 50 D-Marks (yeah, old story...) and answered "because I can afford to do so". Learning effect - none. It was just too cheap for him. On the other side it would be ridiculous to charge a very high sum and get people in financial troubles for small things. So yes, I rather like this idea.

2013-05-31, 15:06	#10
TimSorbet Account Deleted "Tim Sorbera" Aug 2006 San Antonio, TX USA 11×389 Posts	This may be what was referred to: http://www.autoblog.com/2010/08/13/s...ing-fine-ever/ It is based on the offender's income, not his net worth. As that is tracked in most places for income tax purposes, I'm sure it's easier to come by.

2013-05-31, 15:12	#11
retina Undefined "The unspeakable one" Jun 2006 My evil lair 1A1E₁₆ Posts	Was it Steve Jobs that had a yearly income of $1.00? If not him then I'm sure there are other CEOs that have comparatively tiny incomes. Net worth can be transferred also. I don't see how it is workable for people that can wangle income and asset values to their advantage.