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Old 2005-01-01, 18:32   #1
Mike
 
May 2004
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Default Question about reserving exponent ethics

Say you look through the assignment file on Primenet, and you notice an exponent you really, really, want to test. Then, on the details you notice that it's been running for 200 odd days, "To go" is a large negative number, and "exp" is -0.9.

Code:
XXXXXXXX     67             209.1  -58.6  -0.9    30-Jun-04 09:33
Is it "ok" to claim the number for yourself considering that it doesn't look like the person's finished or even testing the exponent anymore, and the exponent will self-unreserve in 0.1 days anyway?
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Old 2005-01-01, 23:03   #2
ColdFury
 
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It's frowned upon.

If you want it, try to grab it right after it formally expires, but not before.
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Old 2005-01-02, 10:58   #3
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"Patrik Johansson"
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Also check the status files (hrf3 or lucas_v) if this has already been reported. Due to the "Error 3" mentioned in other places in these forums, some exponents are "stuck" as assigned when they have really been finished already. (The user then got an erroneous "Error 3. Exponent not assigned to this computer.") But I agree with ColdFury: wait until it has expired.
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Old 2005-01-02, 17:52   #4
Mike
 
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Do the exponents get re-assigned right away, or is there some extra time to be able to do this before some one else is assigned the exponent?
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Old 2005-01-03, 01:14   #5
ColdFury
 
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They expire at 6:00 UTC (?). After that, it's first come, first serve.
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Old 2005-01-03, 18:08   #6
patrik
 
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Take a look at http://www.mersenne.org/primenet/status.shtml which is updated every hour (although it is not complete until 10 minutes past or so) and learn how many exponents are normally assigned every hour. Then leave the smallest ones, since they might have been reserved already (the standard way).
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Old 2005-01-03, 23:22   #7
patrik
 
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I hope this one wasn't you, Mike, since it has been tested twice already (and that was more than a year ago).
Code:
7769383  65     0x5AE70EF921BED2__                03-Jan-05 02:44  guessaaa       1
The exponent seems to have reappeared (see this thread). Let's hope it stays away from primenet now.
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Old 2005-01-04, 18:16   #8
cheesehead
 
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"Richard B. Woods"
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike
Is it "ok" to claim the number for yourself
Let me be more direct than ColdFury here: No, it's never okay to poach (or "claim") another person's assignment. The license you got with GIMPS software clearly implies that assignments (whether by PrimeNet or by other means) are intended to be exclusive. Such exclusivity is violated by poaching, so poaching of GIMPS assignments is unethical (regardless of whether GIMPS has a means of enforcement).

But, as ColdFury said, it's all right to check the status of an about-to-expire assignment in order to be ready to try to legitimately get it after expiration as soon as PrimeNet makes it available for reassignment.

Last fiddled with by cheesehead on 2005-01-04 at 18:18
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Old 2005-01-08, 19:06   #9
Danath
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike
Is it "ok" to claim the number for yourself ...
AFAIK, you cannot reserve (via PrimeNet) a certain exponent by yourself, can you?

I was wondering, if I test or factor an exponent, that wasn't assigned to me by PrimeNet (and was not assigned to someone else either), would PrimeNet accept (and credit) the result for that exponent, sent by me? The reason for doing that is double-checking a first time test completed by me earlier or, even better, to make a triple-check for an exponent double-checked by me (in order to know as soon as possible, was it my machine that returned the wrong result, or it wasn't mine). It's clear that I'll have to wait too much till when the double-checking wave will get to the current first-time-tests range. So in order to know that, I decided to do a trial-factoring test (as it takes less time to complete), not assigned to me by PrimeNet. I downloaded nofactor.zip and picked an exponent in the 29.XXX.XXX range (not used by PrimeNet at that moment). The computer found a factor very soon, so I connected to PrimeNet and sent the result, receiving the error "Exponent not assigned to this computer". After that a picked another exponent and factored it from 2^60 to 2^68. Sending the result for it, I got the same error (and no info about these two exponents in my account report).

I have waited for the nofactor.zip to update, in order to see if the exponents have been removed from the factoring queue, and saw that PrimeNet updated the exponents' state. I know I can't get credit for PrimeNet, if the exponents were not assigned by it to me, but I also know that there is another list - credit for GIMPS. If I understand correctly:
-- the Individual Account Report and the PrimeNet stats show only the PrimeNet credit (for the exponents assigned automatically by PrimeNet);
-- the GIMPS credit contains the PrimeNet credit, but besides that it also contains the credit for the exponents not assigned automatically by PrimeNet, which doesn't go to the Account Report and PrimeNet stats, but is shown on the "GIMPS Top producers" page (www.mersenne.org/top.htm) only. Right?

I also took an exponent that was already double-checked, entered it into worktodo.ini, connected to PrimeNet, and it assigned the exponent to me without errors (of course, I unreserved it after that). Now I assume that PrimeNet complains on unassigned exponent only if the exponent is not finished (not proven to be prime or not prime). But why can't it assign/credit an exponent that is not assigned to anyone (so that it won't hurt anyone)?
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Old 2005-01-08, 22:20   #10
cheesehead
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danath
AFAIK, you cannot reserve (via PrimeNet) a certain exponent by yourself, can you?
No.

Quote:
I was wondering, if I test or factor an exponent, that wasn't assigned to me by PrimeNet (and was not assigned to someone else either), would PrimeNet accept (and credit) the result for that exponent, sent by me?
PrimeNet will accept the result if you enter it on the "Manual Test Results Check In" section of page http://mersenne.org/ips/manualtests.html. The result will be added to the GIMPS/PrimeNet database. You will get credit on the GIMPS Top Producers list, but not on the PrimeNet Top Producers list.

Quote:
The reason for doing that is double-checking a first time test completed by me earlier or, even better, to make a triple-check for an exponent double-checked by me (in order to know as soon as possible, was it my machine that returned the wrong result, or it wasn't mine).
That's fine.

Quote:
I decided to do a trial-factoring test (as it takes less time to complete), not assigned to me by PrimeNet. I downloaded nofactor.zip and picked an exponent in the 29.XXX.XXX range (not used by PrimeNet at that moment). The computer found a factor very soon, so I connected to PrimeNet and sent the result, receiving the error "Exponent not assigned to this computer".
As you've already seen, using the automatic PrimeNet connection to report work that wasn't assigned by PrimeNet won't work. Any work not assigned by PrimeNet needs to be reported on the "Manual Test Results Check In" section of page http://mersenne.org/ips/manualtests.html in order for you to get (GIMPS-only) credit.

Quote:
I know I can't get credit for PrimeNet, if the exponents were not assigned by it to me,
Correct.

Quote:
but I also know that there is another list - credit for GIMPS. If I understand correctly:
-- the Individual Account Report and the PrimeNet stats show only the PrimeNet credit (for the exponents assigned automatically by PrimeNet);
-- the GIMPS credit contains the PrimeNet credit, but besides that it also contains the credit for the exponents not assigned automatically by PrimeNet, which doesn't go to the Account Report and PrimeNet stats, but is shown on the "GIMPS Top producers" page (www.mersenne.org/top.htm) only. Right?
Right!

Quote:
I also took an exponent that was already double-checked, entered it into worktodo.ini, connected to PrimeNet, and it assigned the exponent to me without errors (of course, I unreserved it after that). Now I assume that PrimeNet complains on unassigned exponent only if the exponent is not finished (not proven to be prime or not prime). But why can't it assign/credit an exponent that is not assigned to anyone (so that it won't hurt anyone)?
Because PrimeNet just doesn't have that capability coded into it. There's a new version of PrimeNet in development with more capabilities, but I don't know whether this particular one will be included (I doubt it).
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Old 2005-01-09, 17:19   #11
garo
 
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AFAIK, Primenet sets a state for all exponents under 79.3M. Some of these states allow people to claim exponents as their own. For example, the current LL testing exponent queue has exponents in 27.4-27.5M waiting to be assigned. If you pick one of them, add them to you queue and then communicate with Primenet, Primenet should assign the exponent to you. But if the exponent you have chosen has a state that does not allow this operation, you will get an error.

Three caveats:
1) Due to security reasons (and to prevent poaching) the possible states of an exponent are not described in public anywhere.
2) Scott has made several changes to the server code relatively recently. So what I stated above may not be true anymore.
3) George's stats on the GIMPS status page do not give factoring credit.
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