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Old 2022-09-29, 13:46   #408
ldesnogu
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Sardonicus View Post
There is no doubt in my mind that the Russians did it.
Agreed. They are trying to further destabilize the energy market and also show they can attack whatever infrastructure they want to create fear in Europe.

And if anyone needs a proof: they are claiming they didn't do it.

Last fiddled with by ldesnogu on 2022-09-29 at 13:47
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Old 2022-09-29, 13:55   #409
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Psycho-[girl|boy]friend mode as national policy https://i.imgflip.com/ytcsw.jpg
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Old 2022-09-29, 15:30   #410
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Another plausible scenario. Which countries have a grievance against both Russia and Germany, and have the technical ability to carry out such an act of sabotage?

There is one very obvious candidate and several minor players.
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Old 2022-09-30, 05:36   #411
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xilman View Post
Another plausible scenario.
+1. What I learned watching Columbo, is that the murderer is usually that who has the most to gain from the death of the victim... With the small disagreement, however: there are 2 obvious candidates... Edit: actually, 3 (and no, I am not including GB/UK).

Last fiddled with by LaurV on 2022-09-30 at 05:39
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Old 2022-09-30, 06:53   #412
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Lightbulb There is a referendum for Russian population - "join Netherlands"



(there are subtitles, don't worry)
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Old 2022-09-30, 11:42   #413
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xilman View Post
Another plausible scenario. Which countries have a grievance against both Russia and Germany, and have the technical ability to carry out such an act of sabotage?

There is one very obvious candidate and several minor players.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LaurV View Post
+1. What I learned watching Columbo, is that the murderer is usually that who has the most to gain from the death of the victim... With the small disagreement, however: there are 2 obvious candidates... Edit: actually, 3 (and no, I am not including GB/UK).
I bet you both think of Vatican or perhaps Andorra. Another one might be Switzerland. Funny (or not) way to say your comments are nebulous

So according to you what are the reasons some other countries but the Federation of Russia could have done that sabotage?

Let's pick the USA: in February Biden said he did not want to see NS2 open: https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-...nord-stream-2/
But since then the EU and the USA signed an agreement about gas delivery: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...k-kremlin-hold

Or it could be to make sure the EU does not backpedal helping Ukraine or reduce sanctions against the Federation of Russia. That's very doubtful in my humble opinion. Communication between the USA and the EU has been very good these last few months and I don't think Biden would take the risk to break that.


Another reason to think it's Russia: they were subject to huge penalties for not fulfilling their contract about gas delivery. If the pipes are out of order because of some terrorist act, the penalties are dropped.
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Old 2022-09-30, 12:28   #414
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xilman View Post
Another plausible scenario. Which countries have a grievance against both Russia and Germany, and have the technical ability to carry out such an act of sabotage?

There is one very obvious candidate and several minor players.
This reminds me of an old Gary Larson cartoon...
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Old 2022-09-30, 12:32   #415
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Why are many here being so coy about naming countries?

Are you afraid of being wrong?
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Old 2022-09-30, 13:44   #416
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ldesnogu View Post
<snip>
Another reason to think it's Russia: they were subject to huge penalties for not fulfilling their contract about gas delivery. If the pipes are out of order because of some terrorist act, the penalties are dropped.
The legal principle is called force majeure. It nullifies contractual obligations which can not be fulfilled due to "circumstances beyond our control."<google google>
Quote:
In general, for an event to trigger a force majeure clause, it must be unforeseeable, external to the parties of the contract, and serious enough that it renders it impossible for the party to perform its contractual obligations.
I doubt any external party with a grievance against Russia would knowingly give the Russians an excuse to avoid penalties for breach of contract. Which they are already facing, since they were already refusing to deliver by claiming the authority to change the contract after they signed it, illegally demanding that customers they arbitrarily deem "unfriendly" now have to pay in rubles. For Russia to blow up its own pipelines and then try to blame "external parties" makes perfect sense. And that goes double if the pipelines are insured. It would be like a failing storekeeper having a "torch job" done to collect on a fire insurance policy.

As I understand it, the "technical ability" required to blow up the pipelines is minimal. You need to know the location of the pipelines. The Russians qualify on that score. You need bombs which can be detonated remotely. A few sea mines would probably suffice. You need to plant the bombs. The explosions occurred around 70 meters deep. Scuba divers could do it, though they'd have to go through decompression during ascent to avoid "the bends."
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Old 2022-09-30, 13:57   #417
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Quote:
Originally Posted by retina View Post
Why are many here being so coy about naming countries?

Are you afraid of being wrong?
Very well. I will start with Poland.
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Old 2022-09-30, 17:05   #418
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https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/zelenskiy-says-ukraine-applying-nato-membership-2022-09-30/
Quote:
Ukraine applies for NATO membership, rules out Putin talks
KYIV, Sept 30 (Reuters) - President Volodymyr Zelenskiy announced a surprise bid for fast-track membership of the NATO military alliance on Friday and ruled out talks with President Vladimir Putin, striking back at Moscow after it said it had annexed four Ukrainian regions.
.

Last fiddled with by Uncwilly on 2022-09-30 at 17:06
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