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2008-10-02, 02:18   #859
jinydu

Dec 2003
Hopefully Near M48

6DE16 Posts

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Orgasmic Troll I think M45 and M46 are outside of our ability to really grasp the notion of how big it is.
How about: M46 is 1 less than 1/(probability of flipping a fair coin 43,112,609 times and getting all heads)?

(assuming that we can grasp the notion of how big 43,112,609 is)

Last fiddled with by jinydu on 2008-10-02 at 02:19

 2008-10-02, 02:37 #860 Batalov     "Serge" Mar 2008 Phi(4,2^7658614+1)/2 23×5×229 Posts This reminds me to watch (again) Rosencrantz & Guildenstern Are Dead
2008-10-02, 13:42   #861
Orgasmic Troll
Cranksta Rap Ayatollah

Jul 2003

64110 Posts

Quote:
 Originally Posted by jinydu How about: M46 is 1 less than 1/(probability of flipping a fair coin 43,112,609 times and getting all heads)? (assuming that we can grasp the notion of how big 43,112,609 is)
Do you have an intuitive notion of how long it would take to flip a coin 43 million times? (btw, if you start doing any arithmetic in your head, that's not intuitive)

2008-10-02, 15:03   #862
bsquared

"Ben"
Feb 2007

64168 Posts

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Orgasmic Troll I think M45 and M46 are outside of our ability to really grasp the notion of how big it is.
Sound energy is something people can grasp.

We know that M46 is ~ 130 million dB bigger than, say, the number of fingers on your hand.

Code:
130M dB = 10 log10 ((10^13M)/5)
The explosion of Krakatoa is usually quoted as the loudest thing witnessed on earth, and had a sound pressure of 20,000 kPa, or about 170 dB louder than the sound of rustling leaves.

Code:
170 dB = 20 log10 (20e3 / 60e-6)
So M46 is bigger than the number of fingers on your hand by approximately the same amount that 10^6.5 million exploding Krakatoa's are louder than the sound of rustling leaves.

Code:

130M dB ~= 20 log10 (10^6.5e6 * (20e3/60e-6))
Errrm, ok, nevermind... still can't really grasp that.

p.s. does anything in nature follow a log log relationship? That's what we need here to make the right analogy.

2008-10-02, 19:47   #863

"Richard B. Woods"
Aug 2002
Wisconsin USA

718810 Posts

Quote:
 Originally Posted by bsquared p.s. does anything in nature follow a log log relationship?
Sure: the natural logarithm of trunk diameter.

2008-10-02, 19:56   #864
bsquared

"Ben"
Feb 2007

2·3·557 Posts

Quote:
 Originally Posted by cheesehead Sure: the natural logarithm of trunk diameter.

 2008-10-02, 20:03 #865 jinydu     Dec 2003 Hopefully Near M48 2×3×293 Posts This is actually an example from math, not from the physical world, but... How about $\sum{\frac{1}{p_i}}$, where the sum is taken over all primes less than or equal to 2^43112609 - 1? I think the result is approximately 17.5 (but I'm not sure because of the $o(1)$ term; I'm not sure if M46 is "large enough" to make it less than 0.1). Last fiddled with by jinydu on 2008-10-02 at 20:08
2008-10-04, 16:12   #866
CRGreathouse

Aug 2006

134628 Posts

$\sum_{p

with Mertens' constant M = 0.2614972...

Quote:
 Originally Posted by jinydu How about $\sum{\frac{1}{p_i}}$, where the sum is taken over all primes less than or equal to 2^43112609 - 1? I think the result is approximately 17.5 (but I'm not sure because of the $o(1)$ term; I'm not sure if M46 is "large enough" to make it less than 0.1).
The error should be very small. A simple geometric model of the errors at 10^k for k in {3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8} (a good fit, R = 0.99987) suggests all* the error will be in your choice of M. The error around 1e8 is only about 4 millionths...

I expect your result is 17.47431035675907928519109475..., accurate to all displayed decimals.

* Unless you use more than, say, ten million digits of M.

 2008-10-04, 19:30 #867 jinydu     Dec 2003 Hopefully Near M48 2×3×293 Posts At Long Last!
 2008-10-04, 21:15 #868 Batalov     "Serge" Mar 2008 Phi(4,2^7658614+1)/2 23×5×229 Posts I've always liked their "Click for larger view" gag. I strongly suspect that they reused the same picture, too! That's cheating! Attached Thumbnails   Last fiddled with by Batalov on 2008-10-04 at 21:16
 2008-10-04, 21:38 #869 Mini-Geek Account Deleted     "Tim Sorbera" Aug 2006 San Antonio, TX USA 102538 Posts Actually, the "larger" image is twice the size. Still, it's so blurry that it might as well be the first size (not that I'm expecting to be able to see the digits or something, but come on...).

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