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Old 2020-11-25, 18:03   #540
rogue
 
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The article says this:

Quote:
The Wisconsin Supreme Court this spring affirmed the state elections commission’s guidance that it’s up to each voter to decide whether they are indefinitely confined. More than 215,000 voters this year said they were confined, which allows them to cast a ballot without having to present a photo ID. The lawsuit says more than 96,000 self-identified confined voters should not count.
No idea where they get 96,000 and what their logic is about them being thrown out. I don't know if they separate ballots from the envelopes they come in, so I don't know if there is anyway to know which votes should be thrown out.

It also has this:

Quote:
The lawsuit alleges that more than 14,000 ballots “requested in the name of a registered Republican by someone other than that person” were cast and that more than 12,000 “Republican ballots” were returned but not counted.
Where this 14,000 comes from is a mystery to me, but it assumes these ballots were returned and also assumes that the ballots that were returned had votes cast for Biden. As for "returned but not counted", I don't know where that number comes from either. If it is true, I assume there is a reason they were not counted, but this seems to be different than the "we lost them" reason. I have to believe that there are also Democratic ballots that were not counted for the same reason.
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Old 2020-11-25, 18:10   #541
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chalsall View Post
But there are some systems where you can't "Throw the first one away.
Example: multicellular life.

Well, you might be able to throw it away, but it would be phenomenally difficult.
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Old 2020-11-25, 18:15   #542
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rogue View Post
<snip>
It also has this:
Quote:
The lawsuit alleges that more than 14,000 ballots “requested in the name of a registered Republican by someone other than that person” were cast and that more than 12,000 “Republican ballots” were returned but not counted.
Where this 14,000 comes from is a mystery to me, but it assumes these ballots were returned and also assumes that the ballots that were returned had votes cast for Biden. As for "returned but not counted", I don't know where that number comes from either. If it is true, I assume there is a reason they were not counted, but this seems to be different than the "we lost them" reason. I have to believe that there are also Democratic ballots that were not counted for the same reason.
The very next sentence in the article shows what nonsense this whole claim is:
Quote:
People do not register to vote by political party in Wisconsin so it is impossible to know how many Republicans or Democrats requested absentee ballots.
The "logic" is trying to stall certification. Where do they get their "data" from? That would be, "Somewhere the sun don't shine."
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Old 2020-11-25, 21:42   #543
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Judge halts further vote certification; Gov. Wolf to appeal
Quote:
HARRISBURG, Pa. (AP) — A Pennsylvania appeals court judge ordered state officials on Wednesday to halt any further steps toward certifying election results, a day after Gov. Tom Wolf said he had certified Democrat Joe Biden as the winner of the presidential election in Pennsylvania.
<snip>
Republican U.S. Rep. Mike Kelly and others filed suit Saturday to challenge approximately 2.5 million mail-in ballots that were predominantly cast by Democrats. They said the GOP-controlled state Legislature had failed to follow proper procedure when they voted last year to expand mail-in voting. The state Supreme Court has twice this month overturned Republican challenges over election issues.
EDIT: The Pennsylvania lawsuit is based on the narrow scope of absentee voting described in Article VII of the Pennsylvania State Constitution:
Quote:
§ 14. Absentee voting.
(a) The Legislature shall, by general law, provide a manner in which, and the time and place at which, qualified electors who may, on the occurrence of any election, be absent from the municipality of their residence, because their duties, occupation or business require them to be elsewhere or who, on the occurrence of any election, are unable to attend at their proper polling places because of illness or physical disability or who will not attend a polling place because of the observance of a religious holiday or who cannot vote because of election day duties, in the case of a county employee, may vote, and for the return and canvass of their votes in the election district in which they respectively reside.
(b) For purposes of this section, "municipality" means a city, borough, incorporated town, township or any similar general purpose unit of government which may be created by the General Assembly.
The latest lawsuit, which would, if successful, result in the invalidation of approximately two and a half million ballots, is based on the contention that the above clause does not allow the Legislature to provide for absentee voting in any other circumstances.

I note, however, that the word "shall" mandates the legislature to provide for absentee voting under the stated circumstances, but the language does not forbid the Legislature from providing for absentee voting in other circumstances.

The law itself (2019 Act 77) has not previously been challenged as being contrary to the Pennsylvania State Constitution, though the 2020 extension of the deadline for the arrival of mail-in ballots was challenged.

Further edit: Governor Wolf has appealed Judge McCullough's order to the Pennsylvania Supreme Court. Thanks to Rick Hasen's Election Law Blog we are informed of an effect of this appeal:

Quote:
Pennsylvania Code, Title 210 Chapter 17:
Rule 1736. Exemption from Security.
(a) General rule. -- No security shall be required of:
(1) The Commonwealth or any officer thereof, acting in his official capacity.

(2) Any political subdivision or any officer thereof, acting in his official capacity, except in any case in which a common pleas court has affirmed an arbitration award in a grievance or similar personnel matter.

(3) A party acting in a representative capacity.

(4) A taxpayer appealing from a judgment entered in favor of the Commonwealth upon an account duly settled when security has already been given as required by law.

(5) An appellant who has already filed security in a lower court, conditioned as prescribed by these rules for the final outcome of the appeal.
(b) Supersedeas automatic. -- Unless otherwise ordered pursuant to this chapter the taking of an appeal by any party specified in Subdivision (a) of this rule shall operate as a supersedeas in favor of such party, which supersedeas shall continue through any proceedings in the United States Supreme Court.
"Supersedeas" means the lower court's proceedings are stayed pending review.

Last fiddled with by Dr Sardonicus on 2020-11-26 at 13:30 Reason: As indicated
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Old 2020-11-26, 13:57   #544
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If the court does tosses out these votes, then it is akin to blaming the voters for not knowing that the law was unconstitutional.
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Old 2020-11-26, 14:52   #545
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rogue View Post
If the court does tosses out these votes, then it is akin to blaming the voters for not knowing that the law was unconstitutional.
The votes won't be tossed out. The law isn't unconstitutional. Article VII, section 14 of the Pennsylvania State Constitution says the Legislature must ("shall") provide by law for absentee voting under the stated circumstances. It does not say that the Legislature can provide for absentee voting only in the stated circumstances, or that it may not provide for absentee voting in other circumstances, as the suit contends.

The language is plain enough that it doesn't take a legal expert to interpret it. That may be why, on his Election Law Blog, Rich Hasen describes the suit as "bonkers."

If there were any merit to it, (1) such a defect would likely have been detected while the law was being written, and (2) a suit based on the theory would certainly been filed earlier.

Last fiddled with by Dr Sardonicus on 2020-11-26 at 14:54 Reason: insert omitted space
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Old 2020-11-26, 14:58   #546
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But the fact that a judge is actually willing to listen to the arguments raises the possibility that she will agree with the plaintiffs.
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