mersenneforum.org  

Go Back   mersenneforum.org > Extra Stuff > Soap Box

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 2020-11-18, 01:35   #485
masser
 
masser's Avatar
 
Jul 2003
wear a mask

60E16 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by storm5510 View Post
Trump going wacko worries me. It should worry everybody. He should be "relieved" of his position which would allow Pence to finish the term. I don't know if there is anything in The Constitution about this, or not. If not, then it should be added.
The 25th Amendment. In fact, that amendment could be abused to spare us from the last three weeks of Trump's term.
masser is online now  
Old 2020-11-18, 02:04   #486
storm5510
Random Account
 
storm5510's Avatar
 
"Norman D. Powell"
Aug 2009
Indiana, USA.

74F16 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by masser View Post
The 25th Amendment. In fact, that amendment could be abused to spare us from the last three weeks of Trump's term.
The last three weeks? It is more like eight.

I just finished a search for this. Section 4 of the 25th amendment reads:

Quote:
Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President.
This was contained in a larger article about the 25th Amendment in general. The article goes on to mention staffers at the WH whispering among themselves, "We're not at Section 4, yet." I wonder what the tipping point is for them?
storm5510 is offline  
Old 2020-11-18, 02:16   #487
Dr Sardonicus
 
Dr Sardonicus's Avatar
 
Feb 2017
Nowhere

2·3·719 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by storm5510 View Post
<snip>
Trump going wacko worries me. It should worry everybody. He should be "relieved" of his position which would allow Pence to finish the term. I don't know if there is anything in The Constitution about this, or not. If not, then it should be added.
No, I don't worry about him going wacko, I worry because he is wacko. Has been for decades. He's widely viewed as a narcissist, possibly a "malignant narcissist." Even if he doesn't do a mega-apest in the waning days of his Administration, he will have likely done irreparable damage to this nation, thanks to the willing assistance of a bunch of poltroons with the power to assist him. Like a couple of R's on the Wayne County, MI canvassing board: Michigan county fails to certify vote, stalling outcome
Quote:
DETROIT (AP) — Republicans in Michigan's largest county blocked the certification of local election results in a 2-2 vote along party lines that could temporarily stall official approval of Joe Biden’s win in the state.

The practical effect of the move may be a delay in ultimately blessing Biden's victory, with unofficial returns showing he defeated President Donald Trump in Michigan by 146,000 votes. Still, the failure to certify by the Wayne County Board of Canvassers is a boost for Trump, who is grasping for ways to slow down an inevitable defeat.
Dr Sardonicus is offline  
Old 2020-11-18, 03:47   #488
rogue
 
rogue's Avatar
 
"Mark"
Apr 2003
Between here and the

141448 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by storm5510 View Post
The last three weeks? It is more like eight.

I just finished a search for this. Section 4 of the 25th amendment reads:

This was contained in a larger article about the 25th Amendment in general. The article goes on to mention staffers at the WH whispering among themselves, "We're not at Section 4, yet." I wonder what the tipping point is for them?
But this is the means by which Trump could be pardoned.
rogue is offline  
Old 2020-11-18, 12:17   #489
Dr Sardonicus
 
Dr Sardonicus's Avatar
 
Feb 2017
Nowhere

2·3·719 Posts
Default That won't last long, did it?

Michigan GOP backtracks after blocking vote certification
Quote:
DETROIT (AP) — In an abrupt about-face, Michigan's largest county on Tuesday night unanimously certified election results showing Democrat Joe Biden defeating President Donald Trump, hours after Republicans first blocked formal approval of voters' intentions.

The initial move was quickly condemned by Democrats, election experts and spectators at the Wayne County Board of Canvassers online meeting as a dangerous attempt to block the results of a free and fair election.
<snip>
There has been no evidence of widespread voting fraud in Michigan, or in any other state. Federal and state officials from both parties have declared the 2020 election safe and secure.

Still, Trump has spent the two weeks since Election Day raising false claims of voter fraud and refusing to concede to Biden. He relished the initial developments in Michigan, tweeting, “Having courage is a beautiful thing.”

But the broader condemnation was swift, including from the meeting's online spectators, who blasted Palmer and fellow Republican William Hartmann during a public comment period over Zoom.
<snip>
Dr Sardonicus is offline  
Old 2020-11-18, 12:31   #490
Dr Sardonicus
 
Dr Sardonicus's Avatar
 
Feb 2017
Nowhere

2×3×719 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rogue View Post
But this (25th Amendment) is the means by which Trump could be pardoned.
Not the only means, however.

He could pardon himself. Not certain that would work, but it was discussed when Nixon was President, and it seemed like it might.

Another way, mentioned months ago in I forget what thread, is that the president resigns some time before Noon on January 20th, the VP becomes president, and pardons the now ex-president.


This is similar to what actually happened with Nixon. He resigned, and, immediately upon taking office, Gerald Ford issued a "full, free, and absolute pardon" unto him.
Dr Sardonicus is offline  
Old 2020-11-18, 13:52   #491
Dr Sardonicus
 
Dr Sardonicus's Avatar
 
Feb 2017
Nowhere

2·3·719 Posts
Default

It's getting hard to keep up...

Trump fires agency head who vouched for 2020 vote security
Quote:
WASHINGTON (AP) — President Donald Trump fired the nation's top election security official, a widely respected member of his administration who had dared to refute the president's unsubstantiated claims of electoral fraud and vouch for the integrity of the vote.

While abrupt, the dismissal Tuesday of Christopher Krebs, the director of the Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency, was not a surprise. Since his loss, Trump has been ridding his administration of officials seen as insufficiently loyal and has been denouncing the conduct of an election that led to an embarrassing defeat to Democrat Joe Biden.

That made Krebs a prime target. He had used the imprimatur of Trump's own Department of Homeland Security, where his agency was based, to issue a stream of statements and tweets over the past week attesting to the proper conduct of the election and denouncing the falsehoods spread by the Republican president and his supporters — without mentioning Trump by name.
<snip>
The agency emerged from rocky beginnings. Just before President Barack Obama left office, the U.S. designated election systems as critical national security infrastructure, like dams or power plants, as a result of the interference by Russia, which included the penetration of state elections systems as well as massive disinformation.

Some state election officials and Republicans, suspicious of federal intrusion on their turf, were opposed to the designation. The National Association of Secretaries of State adopted a resolution in opposition to the move in February 2017. But the Trump administration supported the designation, and, eventually, skeptical state officials welcomed the assistance.
And now, what you've all been waiting for...

Ladies and Gentlemen! Another installment of The Post-Election Follies!

A rusty Giuliani returns to the courtroom on Trump's behalf
Quote:
WILLIAMSPORT, Pa. (AP) — Representing a client inside a courtroom for the first time in nearly three decades, Rudy Giuliani showed some rust as he tried to make the case that President Donald Trump has been robbed of re-election.

The former federal prosecutor and New York City mayor, who has taken over Trump's efforts to overturn the election results, entered a courthouse in the small Pennsylvania city of Williamsport on Tuesday with a few dozen Trump supporters cheering him from across the street.

Over the next several hours, he fiddled with his Twitter account, forgot which judge he was talking to and threw around wild, unsupported accusations about a nationwide conspiracy by Democrats to steal the election.
<snip>
He mistook the judge for a federal judge in a separate Pennsylvania district who rejected a separate Trump campaign case: "I was accused of not reading your opinion and that I did not understand it."

And he tripped himself up over the meaning of "opacity."

"In the plaintiffs' counties, they were denied the opportunity to have an unobstructed observation and ensure opacity," Giuliani said. "I'm not quite sure I know what opacity means. It probably means you can see, right?"

"It means you can't," said U.S. District Judge Matthew Brann.

"Big words, your honor," Giuliani said.
<snip>
At one point, an opposing lawyer, Mark Aronchick, disputed Giuliani's repeated contentions that it was illegal for counties to help people vote.

"I don't expect that he would know the Pennsylvania election code," Aronchick said, suggesting — without saying it — that Giuliani was an unprepared out-of-towner.
Dr Sardonicus is offline  
Old 2020-11-18, 15:39   #492
ldesnogu
 
ldesnogu's Avatar
 
Jan 2008
France

3×181 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Sardonicus View Post
Nothing surprising, the Agent Orange is making sure Reps stand united behind him. How can Reps let this happen goes beyond my understanding (I mean apart from thinking the obvious "we have no one except that a..hole to win election"); I need to believe there's a point at which the majority of Reps will stop supporting that aberration and will show him the way out. Or is that impossible until McConnell leaves? Sorry, not very familiar about US politics...

Last fiddled with by ldesnogu on 2020-11-18 at 15:40
ldesnogu is offline  
Old 2020-11-18, 16:35   #493
Xyzzy
 
Xyzzy's Avatar
 
"Mike"
Aug 2002

797910 Posts
Default

Someone we thought we really knew well informed us that they voted for Trump. We asked them why, since we figured nobody we associated with could vote for someone who is that morally corrupt.

They told us that they were worried that Biden would eliminate (?) the police. Apparently they are convinced that all of the BLM protests were really just excuses for violent riots. They said they are angry that a bunch of people game the welfare system and refuse to work. They also mentioned that they figured their stock portfolio would do better with Trump.

This person is non-religious, has a four-year degree in a medical field and is a first generation immigrant. We talk with them every day, but usually not about politics.

Xyzzy is offline  
Old 2020-11-18, 16:51   #494
storm5510
Random Account
 
storm5510's Avatar
 
"Norman D. Powell"
Aug 2009
Indiana, USA.

111010011112 Posts
Default

I have found it very interesting to look at the mindset of people in groups. I am a member of a technical support forum. They have areas for automobiles, TV's, sound systems, smart phones,computers, and many other things I cannot remember.

They all seem to believe Trump is a water-walker and Biden is the devil himself. I decided to play the role of "the local idiot" and pose a question. I asked them to tell me what they think is so great about Trump. I added that it was beyond my comprehension. It will be interesting to see their replies, and I know some will.

storm5510 is offline  
Old 2020-11-18, 17:11   #495
Dr Sardonicus
 
Dr Sardonicus's Avatar
 
Feb 2017
Nowhere

10000110110102 Posts
Default Once more, with feeling...

As to TMOTS/WOTS (look it up) adherents to the Cult of Personality, trying to argue with them or "enlighten" them is pointless. They've been brainwashed. You won't convince them of anything, except possibly that you, too, are the devil incarnate. You might be in for a ststorm of abuse, vilification, and possibly threats.

As to the elected representatives who know better, and are out of utter cowardice keeping their noses where the brown on them won't show, I am reposting a quotation speculating what is in store for them, within their professed belief system.
Through me the way is to the city dolent;
Through me the way is to eternal dole;
Through me the way among the people lost.
Justice incited my sublime Creator;
Created me divine Omnipotence,
The highest Wisdom and the primal Love.
Before me there were no created things,
Only eterne, and I eternal last.
All hope abandon, ye who enter in!"
These words in sombre colour I beheld
Written upon the summit of a gate;
Whence I: "Their sense is, Master, hard to me!"
And he to me, as one experienced:
"Here all suspicion needs must be abandoned,
All cowardice must needs be here extinct.
We to the place have come, where I have told thee
Thou shalt behold the people dolorous
Who have foregone the good of intellect."
And after he had laid his hand on mine
With joyful mien, whence I was comforted,
He led me in among the secret things.
There sighs, complaints, and ululations loud
Resounded through the air without a star,
Whence I, at the beginning, wept thereat.
Languages diverse, horrible dialects,
Accents of anger, words of agony,
And voices high and hoarse, with sound of hands,
Made up a tumult that goes whirling on
For ever in that air for ever black,
Even as the sand doth, when the whirlwind breathes.
And I, who had my head with horror bound,
Said: "Master, what is this which now I hear?
What folk is this, which seems by pain so vanquished?"
And he to me: "This miserable mode
Maintain the melancholy souls of those
Who lived withouten infamy or praise.
Commingled are they with that caitiff choir
Of Angels, who have not rebellious been,
Nor faithful were to God, but were for self.
The heavens expelled them, not to be less fair;
Nor them the nethermore abyss receives,
For glory none the damned would have from them."
And I: "O Master, what so grievous is
To these, that maketh them lament so sore?"
He answered: "I will tell thee very briefly.
These have no longer any hope of death;
And this blind life of theirs is so debased,
They envious are of every other fate.
No fame of them the world permits to be;
Misericord and Justice both disdain them.
Let us not speak of them, but look, and pass.
-- Dante Alighieri, Inferno, Canto III
Dr Sardonicus is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
July 2020 tgan Puzzles 6 2020-08-31 11:30
May 2020 tgan Puzzles 4 2020-06-08 09:49
U.S. Electile Dysfunction 2018 ewmayer Soap Box 174 2019-07-08 12:50
U.S. Electile Dysfunction 2016 cheesehead Soap Box 843 2016-11-09 01:02

All times are UTC. The time now is 01:56.

Fri Feb 26 01:56:18 UTC 2021 up 84 days, 22:07, 0 users, load averages: 1.51, 1.42, 1.47

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum has received and complied with 0 (zero) government requests for information.

Permission is granted to copy, distribute and/or modify this document under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.2 or any later version published by the Free Software Foundation.
A copy of the license is included in the FAQ.