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2021-11-22, 20:17   #12
chalsall
If I May

"Chris Halsall"
Sep 2002

1018210 Posts

Quote:
 Originally Posted by pinhodecarlos Looking at Barbados irradiation baseline from last 20 years it’s a concern country is still so dependent of fossil fuels despite the efforts to increase the Solar kW peak installed. It’s clear that for peak you should concentrate on Solar only alongside energy battery storage for off peak. You should stop diesel generators to be installed as backup and stated on the documents.
Completely agree. And, except for private, there should be *no* further diesel deployments.

Quote:
 Originally Posted by pinhodecarlos 1) which type of manufacture do you have? ... 10) please provide me with your energetic mix breakdown or point me to government website.

The blank pages are because Volumes 1 through 3 are redacted. We have asked for the NDA requirements to get access to these pages.

I will have to get back to you on your other questions. But thank you very much for asking them!

 2021-11-22, 21:25 #13 firejuggler     "Vincent" Apr 2010 Over the rainbow 22×5×137 Posts I'm also curious about the price of daily life in Barbados. For exemple, still in Vol1, page 0038, some service price more than double ( new service below 200amp/above 200 amp). One goes from 50$to 130 and the other from 200 to 350. But How much does a take-out cost? a regular meal? and average salary. You would have to look at the cost for the customer. As Barbados is an island, I imagine there is only one provider, and that invite corruption of the 'independant' institution. Last fiddled with by firejuggler on 2021-11-22 at 21:25  2021-11-22, 21:26 #14 pinhodecarlos "Carlos Pinho" Oct 2011 Milton Keynes, UK 10011100011012 Posts To be honest not fancy about the plant but I do understand the source limitation to generate in house electricity. Have lots and lots of questions. Will need to write them down from top to button, from production to end user. I’m also interested to know the types of transformers deployed throughout the country but let me try to find some time to read the available pages on those 4 volumes. 2021-11-22, 21:31 #15 pinhodecarlos "Carlos Pinho" Oct 2011 Milton Keynes, UK 500510 Posts Quote:  Originally Posted by firejuggler I'm also curious about the price of daily life in Barbados. For exemple, still in Vol1, page 0038, some service price more than double ( new service below 200amp/above 200 amp). One goes from 50$ to 130 and the other from 200 to 350. But How much does a take-out cost? a regular meal? and average salary. You would have to look at the cost for the customer. As Barbados is an island, I imagine there is only one provider, and that invite corruption of the 'independant' institution.
Not sure if they have an energy regulator…a useful one..not like U.K. Ofgem. I suppose O&M costs are too high, primary energy too (fuel oil), distributions costs with high losses…I can get a picture if this like in Brazil plus as you mention there is not competition to provide energy services so they can practise any prices to end users.
Also, by increasing price it’s an easy way to reduce demand but this is a fallacy because the processes in place are still not efficient, put the dust under the mat. But there’s always time to improve and change, hence request for some support here too.

Last fiddled with by pinhodecarlos on 2021-11-22 at 22:01

2021-11-22, 22:35   #16
chalsall
If I May

"Chris Halsall"
Sep 2002

2×3×1,697 Posts

Quote:
 Originally Posted by pinhodecarlos Not sure if they have an energy regulator…

Quote:
 Originally Posted by pinhodecarlos ...a useful one..not like U.K. Ofgem.
Just to share... During the last hearing (held in "meat space") the Lead Economist asked for a flip-board, and then drew an equation that included the sigma symbol. Effectively, a loop with limits...

Many threw their heads back as if they had been slapped. If I remember correctly, the Chairman called a recess to consult with his "talent" as to what was being communicated.

True storey...

Last fiddled with by chalsall on 2021-11-22 at 22:37 Reason: s/Epson/sigma/; # Trust me to get that wrong...

 2021-11-22, 22:39 #17 kruoli     "Oliver" Sep 2017 Porta Westfalica, DE 3·277 Posts Epson? The logo where there is the name written in a sans serif font, all caps? Or are you thinking of Enron by any chance? I just have trouble imaging this with the Epson logo... Edit: Strike that, it was corrected. Last fiddled with by kruoli on 2021-11-22 at 22:41 Reason: Superfluous post.
2021-11-22, 22:49   #18
chalsall
If I May

"Chris Halsall"
Sep 2002

2·3·1,697 Posts

Quote:
 Originally Posted by kruoli Edit: Strike that, it was corrected.
Sincerely... Thank you for keeping me on my toes.

My Team has one shot at this. We have to get this correct.

2021-11-22, 22:56   #19
chalsall
If I May

"Chris Halsall"
Sep 2002

2×3×1,697 Posts

Quote:
 Originally Posted by firejuggler I'm also curious about the price of daily life in Barbados.
Relatively expensive. We import just about everything. Including our food and our talent.

Quote:
 Originally Posted by firejuggler As Barbados is an island, I imagine there is only one provider, and that invite corruption of the 'independant' institution.
Yes.

Corruption exists everywhere. And everywhere it exists, it distorts Adam Smith's and John Nash's beautiful equations.

There are times I actually look forward to AGI stepping forward. But, that is likely to be at least a few years off...

 2021-11-23, 02:10 #20 Uncwilly 6809 > 6502     """"""""""""""""""" Aug 2003 101×103 Posts 33·379 Posts A few comments based upon my viewpoint: Just because solar can be damaged by flying cows, does not mean that is a reason not to invest in it. Sure it can be damaged by hail too, but it still gets installed in place that get hail. Solar is big Hawai'i. The benefits to an island of solar are large. No need to import fuel (and the associated pollution that comes with the delivery). No pollution during the generation. No added CO2, thus less climate change (and less intense storms) and less sea level rise. Capacity can be added in areas without the need to add line capacity (especially true with on site battery systems for peaking and to bridge demand when the renewables are low.) Wind power harvesting structures also do not need to be turbines with 100m spans. The design of some are much more resistive to high winds (either in operation or in protected mode) (here is one that is being tested). Islands tend to have winds that are nearly constant. Same benefits for wind as listed for solar. I don't know if pumped hydro is feasible for the island as a storage mechanism, but it can pair well with solar and/or wind. In looking search the documents 3 sources of power that are quite hardenable against natural threats that don't get good attention that are well suited to islands are (in no particular order): Waste to Energy, Biomass, and Biogas Waste to Energy (WTE) can take several forms. In can take a solid wastestream wholesale (like this awesome project.) Or it can take the dregs left after intense recycling (like the plastics that are often considered 'unrecyclable', leather, rubber, and other products that may not be suited to backhaul off the island). Modern plants are not the old incinerators from the 1970's. It is useful in diversified waste and power management portfolios. It can greatly reduce the need for landfills and even provide enhanced recovery of metals. (Podcast/article resource, while the story is USA centric it applies well to other places.) Biomass can be agricultural waste (stalks, stems, straw, spent sugar cane, etc.) It can be a feedstock for WTE facility or can be handled at separate facility tuned for it. The waste ash can be a nutrient source for plants. Or the "conversion" can be handled at a bio-char facility that uses the off-gas as fuel and produces a useable agricultural product. In can be processed at a dry digestion facility and the gas harvested or a wet digestion facility (with gas harvesting). This again provides great volume reduction. If a digester is used, the solids left are good fertilizer. This all is just a slow form of solar power. Biogas can be from a landfill or from digester facilities. Solid waste from humans and farm animals that are digested for this are not normally considered 'biomass'. This can greatly help reduce pollution from those sources. Existing thermal plants can sometimes have biogas added in. Or the engines can be converted or replaced, but leaving the bulk of the plant untouched. In addition to the power generated in the ICE or the turbine, waste heat can be tapped for bonus power (I have worked at such a plant.) Biogas with gas storage capacity (some landfills use the fill as a storage location) can be very good for peak loads. These three can also exploit synergies (through colocation, etc.) All of these take on island potential sources and put them to work. (Tidal power is very much YMMV). Forgive my ignorance, but is there a potential for geothermal power there? Again, that can be very robust against storms and very good for baseline load. A point that can't be stressed enough, there is no "THE" solution. There are many parts to a good solution.
2021-11-23, 02:26   #21
Dr Sardonicus

Feb 2017
Nowhere

2×2,671 Posts

I don't know much about electrical grids or power generation, but I have downloaded the 4 volumes. I started to read, but my eyes soon crossed and glazed over. Luckily, firejuggler, who evidently knows how to read this sort of thing far better than I do, was able to note some interesting things. One that got really my attention was
Quote:
 Originally Posted by firejuggler Also, It seems that they consider the ROI (return on investissement) is not high enough (P73) . So they need more money.For that, they require about 12% (well 11.8%) more revenue (P78).
It occurred to me to wonder whether ROI not being "high enough" might be due to miscalculation or just plain poor decision making. If that be the case, the rate payers should not be penalized for their screwups.

Quote:
 Originally Posted by chalsall Also... In a few decades, the BLPC legacy generation plant at Spring Garden will likely be underwater (or, at least, undermined)...
When I started looking up stuff about this plant, some of the hits were about the Spring Garden desalination plant. The map shows that it's a bit further inland than the Spring Garden Highway (whereas the generating plant is closer to the shore), so apparently the desalination plant will be OK until after the highway is inundated. However, I was unable to determine whether the desalination plant had its own power plant, or drew from the Spring Garden power plant.

2021-11-23, 11:07   #22
firejuggler

"Vincent"
Apr 2010
Over the rainbow

22·5·137 Posts

Quote:
 Originally Posted by pinhodecarlos 1) which type of manufacture do you have? .... 3) is there an option to rent your citizens roofs to install more solar panels to be connected to the grid? 4) one of basic approach before doing any work is to install automated meter devices to all main importers to understand baselines and base loads. Then energy efficiency measures can be negotiated. ...
1)Volume 3, Schedule I (i), point 13,17

3) yes, see J-9 in Volume 3, page 221 of the PDF(Schedule J-9). Implemented in 2010

4)Volume 3, point Schedule A 28 to 30 and Schedule I (i) 38 to 41

Last fiddled with by firejuggler on 2021-11-23 at 11:47

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