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Old 2019-09-25, 20:30   #1
ewmayer
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Default Official ARM manycore/server thread

Post links on new ARM manycore/server hardware here. By way of "fair and balanced", I offer two contrasting articles:

o The optimists: Watt the heck is this? A 32-core 3.3GHz Arm server CPU shipping? Yes, says Ampere • The Register

o The pessimists: Linus Torvalds on Why ARM Won't Win the Server Space - Slashdot

Last fiddled with by ewmayer on 2019-09-25 at 20:30
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Old 2019-09-27, 10:29   #2
LaurV
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What Linus totally misses is the part that in 10 years or so, what he calls "home" will be ARM, or ARM relatives. Cortex M expert talking here.

The energy struggle will also have a big word to say in "reduced instruction set" versus "complete instruction set" paradigm. Less instructions, less silicon. Less silicon, less power. And x86 (CISC) is not the winner.

OTOH, I am still dreaming on building that "factoring machine" with 960 pieces of STM32 microcontrollers on a board... With 180uA per MHz, we could afford to run about 6 full cards in the 250W of what a RTX card takes, and produce about 3THzDays/Day of TF, which rivals the high-end RTX cards (the 2080TI can give about 4.5T). The only problem, beside designing and producing those cards, would be the price, at $0.3 per MCU, those would cost about $1800 only for the MCUs for the 6 cards, ignoring the other components, so we have to wait for a while, or think to something else than STM32

Last fiddled with by LaurV on 2019-09-27 at 10:31 Reason: spacing :(
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Old 2019-09-28, 13:18   #3
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While I disagree with Linus conclusion that ARM won't make it into the server, I certainly agree with him that the current situation of being unable to develop on an ARM machine with a competitive price is slowing down adoption.

AWS has started deploying ARM-based instances. An ARM server has made it into the TOP500. But I still can't buy a laptop or a desktop with good enough performance for daily dev without having to sell parts of my body. That's very frustrating.

I hope Cortex-A77 will soon make it into such systems. Or that Apple will finally sell a machine running a real OS using its phone/tablet chips.
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Old 2019-09-28, 13:40   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ldesnogu View Post
Or that Apple will finally sell a machine running a real OS using its phone/tablet chips.
Ugh, no thanks. I think a closed not-publicly-documented system would be terrible.

Besides, those phone CPUs are weak and only optimised for phone usage.
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Old 2019-09-28, 13:45   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by retina View Post
Ugh, no thanks. I think a closed not-publicly-documented system would be terrible.
OS X isn't documented? That's what I'm asking for, not iOS.

Quote:
Besides, those phone CPUs are weak and only optimised for phone usage.
Are you kidding? These phone CPU are competitive against latest Intel chips found in laptop, running SPEC benchmark.
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Old 2019-09-28, 14:04   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ldesnogu View Post
OS X isn't documented? That's what I'm asking for, not iOS.
I mean the system, the hardware. It will all be no-documents-for-you, and tough if you want to make it do anything not authorised by Apple. No thanks. I don't want some external company to have control over my stuff unless I decide I want that.
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Are you kidding? These phone CPU are competitive against latest Intel chips found in laptop, running SPEC benchmark.
I'm not kidding. Phone CPUs don't provide for wide memory buses, or multiple RAM channels. No SATA connections, PCI, etc. Limited USB ports. Limited video output options. And so on. They aren't flexible in the ways desktop people might want to use the system.
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Old 2019-09-28, 14:09   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by retina View Post
I mean the system, the hardware. It will all be no-documents-for-you, and tough if you want to make it do anything not authorised by Apple. No thanks. I don't want some external company to have control over my stuff unless I decide I want that.
You mean you don't have control over a Mac Book? Or you have more control on your Intel based laptop?



Quote:
I'm not kidding. Phone CPUs don't provide for wide memory buses, or multiple RAM channels. No SATA connections, PCI, etc. Limited USB ports. Limited video output options. And so on. They aren't flexible in the ways desktop people might want to use the system.
Do you think I'm asking for the phone SoC to be used in such a system? I just want the CPU.


Are you just hating Apple or am I not clear?

Last fiddled with by ldesnogu on 2019-09-28 at 14:10
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Old 2019-09-28, 14:18   #8
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Quote:
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You mean you don't have control over a Mac Book? Or you have more control on your Intel based laptop?
As someone who designs systems, I know how to build Intel and AMD systems. But if I try to ask Apple for one of their chips and build a system, they will tell me to F off.
Quote:
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Do you think I'm asking for the phone SoC to be used in such a system? I just want the CPU.
You can't separate the CPU from the chip. It doesn't work that way. They are designed together. If you want just a CPU ask ARM directly for the IP. You won't find anyone selling an ARM CPU chip as just a CPU, they are always as part of a larger chip.
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Are you just hating Apple or am I not clear?
I certainly have no love for any company that keeps such tight control over the users.
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Old 2019-09-28, 19:19   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by retina View Post
As someone who designs systems, ...
Careful! You are leaking ever more personal information. At this rate I will easily be able (but not necessarily willing) to dox you before much longer. You will then be faced with all the hassle of finding and moving to another secret lair.

Whether or not I am already capable of doing so is left as an exercise in paranoia.

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Old 2019-09-28, 23:09   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xilman View Post
Careful! You are leaking ever more personal information. At this rate I will easily be able (but not necessarily willing) to dox you before much longer. You will then be faced with all the hassle of finding and moving to another secret lair.

Whether or not I am already capable of doing so is left as an exercise in paranoia.
When you near my lair let me know and I'll show you around.
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Old 2019-09-29, 00:17   #11
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Quote:
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When you near my lair let me know and I'll show you around.
Xilman you may want to pass on some parts of the tour.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bh7bYNAHXxw
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