New Sub-Forum...

[Xyzzy]

It has been a while since we have added a new sub-forum... Some of the ones we have added in the past have worked out pretty well, and some of them are very dead...

Some have asked for a "Beginner's Math" forum... Maybe this is a good idea?

Let me know what you all want...

PS - Just in case you all don't know it, if the extra forums bother you, you can hide them like a window shade by using the button on the right hand side of the screen... A lot of stuff on the forum can be hidden that way...

[akruppa]

I don't expect the occasional cranks we get here will use the beginners' forum to post - after all, they have just discovered the formula for all Mersenne primes! And almost all regular discussion usually happening in the Math forum would probably belong in the beginners' forum anyways, at least from the viewpoint of a serious mathematican. I don't think there's much point in moving almost all traffic into a subforum.

That said, how about a Research subforum? That forum could be moderated and impose restrictions (i.e. a lower bound) on the quality of the submissions. That way the regular math forum would be open to all members, regardless of level of mathematical education, and the buffs would have a hangout of their own.

Alex

Edit: this is how Usenet newsgroups usually are organised: an open newsgroup and a moderated .research subgroup.

[Numbers]

This idea has been suggested before, most recently in May when Mystwalker posted this:

http://www.mersenneforum.org/showthread.php?t=3843

Re-reading it again made me laugh; just see how quickly the discussion went off-topic, and why.
I like to think that the situation has improved an awful lot since then. But judging from the amount of traffic there is in the Math forum - only 47 threads in four months - makes me wonder whether this is really necessary. There have been and always will be stupid questions, guys claiming they’ve proved this or that, or knowing a quicker or better way to do something or other. But in a way, they just make me appreciate the quality of the other stuff more. And as it’s principally the math that I come here for I guess I’m just concerned that separation is going to lower that quality. Oh I know that there’s nothing to stop the experts answering questions in the other forum, whatever you choose to call it. What worries me is the 2nd rankers, the guys who aren’t top line experts, or are too modest to think of themselves that way, who won’t be interested in dropping in to see what us idiots are talking about, because all the “real” maths is going on in the other place. And I don’t think that creating a them-and-us mentality is a good way to encourage a community spirit.
I can see where you’re coming from, but I would have to vote with the no’s.

[OmbooHankvald]

I'm all for it! Because people may have stupid questions (f.ex. they may need a newbie-explanation of how LLR works, what "mod" means or something) that they're afraid to ask in the math forum because it's all big and advanced posts in there. The only n00bs who post in the math forum are often "cranks" or people who are way off (I guess).

I, myself and me have tried to explain the Sierpinski problem in a way so hopefully even people who don't know a lot of math should have a chance of understanding.
It would be great to have similar stuff for ECM, P-1 and all sorts of "scary" algorithms (I don't know enough to do such things myself).

The new mersennewiki (Thanks, Xyzzy! ) may hopefully prove a place for easily understandable explanations, but if there is something newbies don't understand I believe they should have a place to seek help without being cranks.
Some of the users in here have quite a great teaching ability (akruppa, philmoore and several others ). And it's nice to get answers to dumb problems (I know first-hand)

So I think a beginner-math forum (or subforum to the math-forum) would be a great idea!

Just my opinion.

OH

[wblipp]

Originally Posted by OmbooHankvald

I, myself and me have tried to explain the Sierpinski problem in a way so hopefully even people who don't know a lot of math should have a chance of understanding.

I just took a look at this. It's pretty good, but following "What is a composite" we have

k is an odd integer

Then a bit later

Let's say that k=2.

An example with an odd value for k would be better.

[OmbooHankvald]

Heh, sorry I'll fix that soon...

Anyway, back to topic. Anyone with comments?

[cheesehead]

Originally Posted by akruppa

I don't expect the occasional cranks we get here will use the beginners' forum to post - after all, they have just discovered the formula for all Mersenne primes! And almost all regular discussion usually happening in the Math forum would probably belong in the beginners' forum anyways, at least from the viewpoint of a serious mathematican. I don't think there's much point in moving almost all traffic into a subforum.

I agree with all.

That said, how about a Research subforum?

Of course, that's where the cranks will head once it exists.

That forum could be moderated and impose restrictions (i.e. a lower bound) on the quality of the submissions.

Okay, as long as someone volunteers to do the moderation and imposition. When we discussed imposing restrictions in the past (in the plan to make the existing Math forum more elite, which seems functionally the same as creating an elite subforum), no one hurried to volunteer to do the extra moderation. Any difference now?

The basic difference in this Research subforum plan, compared to the earlier plan, is just that it shuffles the names around. Will the extra prestige of "Research" in the title motivate enough volunteering to make it work?

While I'm adopting a slight cynicism for humorous effect, I also recognize that there are real benefits to prestigeous titles. Plus, making the elite forum a new one would have the advantage of not dragging all the historical baggage of the existing one.

[akruppa]

I'd again like to suggest a moderated Research subforum to the Math forum, and the Math forum should have a rule set of its own. Imo it should be explicitly open to all, of all levels of education. Flames should be explicitly unwelcome. If a member finds a posting unfitting, the correct course of action should be to either ignore the posting or to ask Xyzzy/a moderator to deal with it.

Alex

[xilman]

Originally Posted by akruppa

I'd again like to suggest a moderated Research subforum to the Math forum ...

Ladies and Gentlemen: we have a volunteer to be a moderator. Let us all show our appreciation for Alex's generous offer.


Paul

[akruppa]

I'd gladly do it. I don't expect there to be much traffic in the Research forum, anyway. But I'd feel better if someone with better mathematical abilities than I have were to co-moderate. Someone with a rather stoic mindset, preferably. Phil Moore, maybe? Phil, would you be interested? Or would anyone like to suggest someone else?

Alex

[ppo]

Originally Posted by akruppa

I'd gladly do it. I don't expect there to be much traffic in the Research forum, anyway. But I'd feel better if someone with better mathematical abilities than I have were to co-moderate. Someone with a rather stoic mindset, preferably. Phil Moore, maybe? Phil, would you be interested? Or would anyone like to suggest someone else?

Alex

I hope that this will NOT mean that all of you "super_experts" (Alex, Phil, Bob, Paul, George, etc.). will stop helping us common people in replying to our "stupid" questions in the Math (and others) forum....
Please do not lock yourselves into an ivory tower named Research forum, but sometimes look out.
I specially ask Bob to be patient with us even when we seem to refuse to educate ourselves, I have learned a lot of interesting things from his replies, but number theory is not my full time job, and I am too old to hope to learn all of it in a reasonable amount of time.
I have also a request: someone (Bob again ?) could do a list of recommened books for beginners and advanced, and make it a stiky append in the Math forum, so it will be there for all of us to consider.
Thanks for listening.
Pierpaolo.