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Old 2013-11-02, 03:31   #1
LaurV
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Hmm, they preferred Ne7 (like going to Nd4, then Nec6, a very sharp pin in out ribs), instead of more aggressive Nf6 (with good perspectives to Ng4 - another sharp pin: take the bishop from e3, threatening to let the pawn in b2 without guard, actually I would have played Nf6 if I would have played black, this was a nice attack on the right, to hit us on the left, like in karate, pretend to punch his face and swap his legs, hehe... This is why the chess is so beautiful!)

So, they preferred Ne7, this means they still want the bishop free on the diagonal and they are still targeting our abc-123 corner.

Therefore, I think nobody will have any objection to c3 now... or... isn't Nc3 better? (more aggressive?)

My own (small) objection (to this game in general), is that we played too passively. Mostly in gote, less in sente. This is kinda loser attitude.. :smile: Strangely, because we play white! (we had first move, blah blah). Our team was more aggressive in the former game, as black... With Nc3 we may take the sente now, for a while, as they must defend b5 (pushing it is disastrous!)

This does not mean that I am right, it is just a feeling. I may be wrong. I remember I was against Nd1 move, I was seeing it as too defensive at the time, but it proved to be a very good move, defending the left side and letting us to play other moves, but now that horse became over-loaded, it can't guard both the left corner and the center (e3 bishop, etc). Black horse in g4 would have been a lot of trouble. So, maybe is time to take the horse in d1 out for a walk? Or not yet?

Last fiddled with by LaurV on 2013-11-02 at 03:33
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Old 2013-11-02, 18:38   #2
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As I see it we have stopped all of blacks plans while slowly going about getting ready to open an attack on the kingside. The only thing left is to move the rook on a1 to free the knight on d1 to move to the either e3 if empty or f2.
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Old 2013-11-02, 18:52   #3
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In this case, then also some rook move can be considered... I think Ra2 or Rb1 (as cheesehead suggested before) will not be a bad move.

I had a look at g4. In fact the idea is that I would like to push e5. They can't beat it, if they do, they are doomed, they lose the center, the pawn in c5, we exchange some pieces, etc, at the end we have more sustains there and we stay much better. So, push e5, block that bishop, we stay well in the center, we can make troubles for his advanced pawns in b/c very easy now... The only problem is that if we push e5 immediately, right now, well... they can ignore it and move Nf5, threatening the bishop and the king's corner. Therefore I spent about an hour thinking if it worth to waste a move to push g4, just to avoid his Nf5. I am not so convinced.... :D

Something else we can't move... (beside the c3, Nc3, some adventures with the rook from a1, etc, there is not much we can do). I can't see the king flank attack you are talking about, and I believe we still have to fight for the center and queen side, otherwise those black pawns can make a lot of trouble there...

We may attack the king's side later (we will have to!), but there is still work to do for it...

Last fiddled with by LaurV on 2013-11-02 at 18:56
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Old 2013-11-05, 05:26   #4
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[QUOTE=WMHalsdorf;358214]The only thing left is to move the rook on a1 to free the knight on d1 to move to the either e3 if empty or f2.[/QUOTE]In particular, Ra2 would keep a threat on the a-file, with the continued intersection of our QR's and dark-squared B's power lines at a7, to inhibit Black adventures on the Q-side.

I'm still thinking about Rb1.

But let's consider 14 ... Nd4 before deciding our 14th move!

It may be time for 14 c3.

[QUOTE=LaurV;358215]I believe we still have to fight for the center and queen side, otherwise those black pawns can make a lot of trouble there... [/QUOTE]I agree we need continued attention to center and Q-side. 14 c3 fits that.

- - -

But what if 14 c3 Na5 ?

15 a4 Nb3 16 Ra3 c4 17 axb5 ... ?

Last fiddled with by cheesehead on 2013-11-05 at 05:40
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Old 2013-11-05, 05:49   #5
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I prefer c3 over Ra2 or Rb1
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Old 2013-11-05, 08:06   #6
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[QUOTE=cheesehead;358435]
But what if 14 c3 Na5 ?

15 a4 Nb3 16 Ra3 c4 17 axb5 ... ?[/QUOTE]
Why not 15.b4? It is the black who has more to lose from exchanging the pawns, not us, because his pawns are more advanced and also sustained from other pieces. He loses strong pawns, we lose weak pawns. "Works to me", as Rick Hunter would say...

I foresee 15.b4 Nb3, 16.Rb1 c4 (horse has no good place to go), and retreating it in c6 the former move is just wasting time, and we get a pawn), 17.dxc4 dxc4, 18.Nb2

We are strong there now, and we just destroyed his advanced, strong pawns, at "lower cost" for us.

I think they will play 0-0 (otherwise why get the horse in the defensive position?) and give us one more move, therefore either 14 c3, or 14 Nc3, both are the same good. Nc3 seemed more aggressive (see my comment before) because of the b5 attack and keeping the center under control, but in fact, they can push from a7 to defend, and we in fact help them to bring more pawns forward. From 3, one might pass... Risky.

I think c3 is better.

edit: I am still studying e5 (g4) combination mentioned above. Maybe there are other (more aggressive) ways to block that bishop, and keep the offensive too. We still have 3 days. (the last 12-14 hours don't count, here is overnight, so I would have to post a move in the evening before, I hope this is just coincidence, and they didn't play "politics", hehe).

Last fiddled with by LaurV on 2013-11-05 at 08:11
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Old 2013-11-07, 23:27   #7
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[QUOTE=LaurV;358451]Why not 15.b4? < snip >
I foresee 15.b4 Nb3, 16.Rb1 c4 (horse has no good place to go), and retreating it in c6 the former move is just wasting time, and we get a pawn), 17.dxc4 dxc4,[/QUOTE]I think you mean 17 ... bxc4[quote]18.Nb2[/quote]18 ... Bxe4 19 Rbd1 (not 19 Rbe1 Bxc3 20 Re2 Bd3) Bxc3 20 Nxc4 ... with threat of Nxd6.

[quote]We are strong there now, and we just destroyed his advanced, strong pawns, at "lower cost" for us.[/quote]... except for leaving our e- and c-pawns [I]en prise[/I] as a result of our (15th,) 17th & 18th moves in that line :-)

... which is why 15 a4 instead of 15 b4, but after the latter, continuation beyond 20 Nxc4 might be favorable anyway. Needs more analysis, I think.

Last fiddled with by cheesehead on 2013-11-08 at 00:01
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Old 2013-11-08, 06:05   #8
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[QUOTE=cheesehead;358679]I think you mean 17 ... bxc4
[/QUOTE]Indeed, sorry for the typo.

[QUOTE]
18 ... Bxe4 19 Rbd1 (not 19 Rbe1 Bxc3 20 Re2 Bd3) Bxc3 20 Nxc4 ... with threat of Nxd6.
[/QUOTE]That would be bad, I had to look again to it, because I didn't write down so many moves. 18...Bxe4 is white game! You people play too defensive. Who cares about a pitiful rook in b1? We sacrificed the queen in the former game, and won. Let them take the rook. We transform a queen on the queen's side. Think about: 19 Nxc4 Bxb1 20 Nxd6+ Kd7 21 Rxb1 Kxd6 22 Rxb3 a5 23 Ng5 Kd7 24 c4 Nf5 25 Ba7 Rbc8 26 Nxf7 Rhf8 27 Rd3+ Ke7 28 Ne5, the game "flows", they can't avoid it, and we have two free pawns sustained by a huge artillery of bishops, rook and knight. Beating 18...Be4 should be a grave mistake of them.

[QUOTE]
... which is why 15 a4 instead of 15 b4, but after the latter, continuation beyond 20 Nxc4 might be favorable anyway. Needs more analysis, I think.[/QUOTE]Here I don't have arguments, for me it just looked that b4 is better. With a4, we get:

[QUOTE]15 a4 Nb3 16 Ra3 [STRIKE]c4 17 axb5 ... ?[/STRIKE][/QUOTE] 16...bxa4, 17 Rxa4 a5 (why should they push c4???) and we got an "almost impossible to scare off" horse in our ribs...

However, I don't believe they will play the horse (I mean 14...Na5), therefore all this discussion is futile.

We have to decide if we go with c3, Nc3, or some rook move. I gave up g4 for now, it is not as good as I expected. We have only today (next 9-10 hours), or else, some of you must post the move later, before expiration, because for me the last hours of the deadline is sleeping time, you don't expect me to wake up at 4 o'clock in the morning to post the move. (don't push me, saying "why not?" :smile: I might be able to set an alarm clock, and show you how crazy I can be...).

Last fiddled with by LaurV on 2013-11-08 at 06:06
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Old 2013-11-08, 14:03   #9
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Ok, I like c3, I understand WMH also likes c3, so my vote would be:

c3 - 5 points
Nc3 - 4 points
Rb1 - 3 points
other rook move - 1 point
g4 - 1 point

This just in case that I go to sleep before posting, and no big argument starts, someone can post the move before expiration time. I hope I will still be awake in few hours, and post by myself (if none of you finds a reason why should we NOT plat c3...), but if not, you are free to post "in the morning" (i.e. [B][U]my[/U][/B] morning, which is evening for you)
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Old 2013-11-08, 17:25   #10
LaurV
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still awake..
no much activity here... so I posted
good night!

Last fiddled with by LaurV on 2013-11-08 at 17:27
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Old 2013-11-08, 19:41   #11
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[QUOTE=LaurV;358708]
Here I don't have arguments, for me it just looked that b4 is better. With a4, we get:

[quote]15 a4 Nb3 16 Ra3 [strike]c4 17 axb5 ... ?[/strike][/quote]16...bxa4, 17 Rxa4 a5[/QUOTE]Oops.

Last fiddled with by cheesehead on 2013-11-08 at 19:48
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