to help other sites

science_man_88 · 2010-11-05, 14:11

hello again i have a request if possible is there a way to stop developer tools loading on a site ? because I think someone like me could cheat on a chess site I go to using them I want to know if so I could pass that information onto the owner/staff of the site and help them with protection. my first thought is a browser detect followed by some way to detect if developer tools are open possibly followed by a password if so to see if it's the owner/ staff or not.

lavalamp · 2011-02-14, 17:49

What are "developer tools"?

science_man_88 · 2011-02-14, 23:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by lavalamp

What are "developer tools"?

in google chrome you can open them and see going to wrench-> tools->developer tools

they allow you to edit code on a site during a particular session for example you could open them on this forum and change the coloring.

lavalamp · 2011-02-15, 00:04

So how do you think editing the client-side code could help you cheat at chess, or any other game for that matter?

CRGreathouse · 2011-02-15, 01:30

The answer is "no": these are client-side, there's nothing the server can do about them. You send the bits and they can do whatever they want with them. They don't even need a browser: they could be reading the raw HTTP for all the server knows.

But as lavalamp intimates, this shouldn't allow anyone to do anything untoward or even particularly special. You can change how you see things (just as you could by changing monitors or using a different browser) but unless the web developer is stupid or lazy you shouldn't be able to, say, cheat at chess.

science_man_88 · 2011-02-15, 21:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by CRGreathouse

The answer is "no": these are client-side, there's nothing the server can do about them. You send the bits and they can do whatever they want with them. They don't even need a browser: they could be reading the raw HTTP for all the server knows.

But as lavalamp intimates, this shouldn't allow anyone to do anything untoward or even particularly special. You can change how you see things (just as you could by changing monitors or using a different browser) but unless the web developer is stupid or lazy you shouldn't be able to, say, cheat at chess.

could you not go into a function and change it to your liking ? I've been able temporary erase someones comments on my end , makes for a peaceful chat. maybe they can get into functions that control the pieces or the ratings. everyone gets warned for bad comments I don't because the mods do nothing for most of mine lol.

lavalamp · 2011-02-15, 22:42

I have seen cats that, when they wish to hide, close their eyes.

CRGreathouse · 2011-02-16, 13:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by science_man_88

maybe they can get into functions that control the pieces or the ratings.

No, those are server-side. You can't change the server by editing client-side scripts.

Brian-E · 2011-02-16, 23:15

The fact that such tools would only be on the client side does not, to my mind, completely rule out the possibility of cheating at chess.

One way of cheating (apart from the much more common one of illegally using chess-playing software to help make your moves) is to interfere with the "timestamp" protocol. This protocol concerns the thinking time which the players have (for example, each player might have 5 minutes to play all their moves, losing the game if they run out of time), and its intention is to eliminate time lost in the communication between the player's client and the server so that the genuine thinking time (at the client end) is recorded. Typically the timestamp code is included in the client software for which the source code is not publicly available, making cheating by altering the software quite difficult. But could the "developer tools" to which science_man_88 refers somehow be used to fool the client's timestamp program by momentarily altering the system clock before the communication from the server (opponent's move) is passed to the client?

science_man_88 · 2011-02-17, 00:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian-E

The fact that such tools would only be on the client side does not, to my mind, completely rule out the possibility of cheating at chess.

One way of cheating (apart from the much more common one of illegally using chess-playing software to help make your moves) is to interfere with the "timestamp" protocol. This protocol concerns the thinking time which the players have (for example, each player might have 5 minutes to play all their moves, losing the game if they run out of time), and its intention is to eliminate time lost in the communication between the player's client and the server so that the genuine thinking time (at the client end) is recorded. Typically the timestamp code is included in the client software for which the source code is not publicly available, making cheating by altering the software quite difficult. But could the "developer tools" to which science_man_88 refers somehow be used to fool the client's timestamp program by momentarily altering the system clock before the communication from the server (opponent's move) is passed to the client?

I actually played unrated with someone I got helping me so far I've found no flaws to report to them.

CRGreathouse · 2011-02-17, 05:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian-E

The fact that such tools would only be on the client side does not, to my mind, completely rule out the possibility of cheating at chess.

Right -- they can pass bad information to the server, which (if poorly configured) may allow information leakage, cheating, or in extreme cases full control of the server. But this isn't related to whether you have developer tools on your browser -- you could do this 'by hand' with a TCP client, no browser at all.

It's like saying, "Could I cheat at the Indy 500 with a wrench?". Could you? Perhaps, but it's probably not the wrench that's enabling the cheating.

2010-11-05, 14:11	#1
science_man_88 "Forget I exist" Jul 2009 Dumbassville 2⁶×131 Posts	to help other sites hello again i have a request if possible is there a way to stop developer tools loading on a site ? because I think someone like me could cheat on a chess site I go to using them I want to know if so I could pass that information onto the owner/staff of the site and help them with protection. my first thought is a browser detect followed by some way to detect if developer tools are open possibly followed by a password if so to see if it's the owner/ staff or not.

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2011-02-14, 17:49	#2
lavalamp Oct 2007 Manchester, UK 17×79 Posts	What are "developer tools"?

2011-02-15, 00:04	#4
lavalamp Oct 2007 Manchester, UK 17×79 Posts	So how do you think editing the client-side code could help you cheat at chess, or any other game for that matter?

2011-02-15, 01:30	#5
CRGreathouse Aug 2006 5985₁₀ Posts	The answer is "no": these are client-side, there's nothing the server can do about them. You send the bits and they can do whatever they want with them. They don't even need a browser: they could be reading the raw HTTP for all the server knows. But as lavalamp intimates, this shouldn't allow anyone to do anything untoward or even particularly special. You can change how you see things (just as you could by changing monitors or using a different browser) but unless the web developer is stupid or lazy you shouldn't be able to, say, cheat at chess.

2011-02-15, 22:42	#7
lavalamp Oct 2007 Manchester, UK 17×79 Posts	I have seen cats that, when they wish to hide, close their eyes.

2011-02-16, 23:15	#9
Brian-E "Brian" Jul 2007 The Netherlands 7×467 Posts	The fact that such tools would only be on the client side does not, to my mind, completely rule out the possibility of cheating at chess. One way of cheating (apart from the much more common one of illegally using chess-playing software to help make your moves) is to interfere with the "timestamp" protocol. This protocol concerns the thinking time which the players have (for example, each player might have 5 minutes to play all their moves, losing the game if they run out of time), and its intention is to eliminate time lost in the communication between the player's client and the server so that the genuine thinking time (at the client end) is recorded. Typically the timestamp code is included in the client software for which the source code is not publicly available, making cheating by altering the software quite difficult. But could the "developer tools" to which science_man_88 refers somehow be used to fool the client's timestamp program by momentarily altering the system clock before the communication from the server (opponent's move) is passed to the client?