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 2016-01-16, 04:41 #1 Gandolf     Jan 2016 1E16 Posts Wall-Sun-Sun primes I am curious to know the actual consensus about the existence of these primes? Do they "probably exist", or might they exist probabilistically provided that the assumption is true, ie F(p-(p|5))/p behaving randomly modulo p? If I understand Chris Caldwell's comment correctly then the statement should depend on the assumption. I just want to clear up any ambiguity. Does anyone know of a formula to calculate the entry point (first occurrence) of a composite factor in the Fibonacci sequence?
 2016-01-21, 06:44 #2 Gandolf     Jan 2016 1E16 Posts What is Mr. Silverman's position on the subject? I was reading Jiri Klaska's paper, which seems to suggest a heuristic that is half of what is conjectured. Is that correct? I'm not sure if that means that WSS primes still makes sense after klaska's adjustment.
2016-01-21, 12:36   #3
science_man_88

"Forget I exist"
Jul 2009
Dumbassville

8,369 Posts

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Gandolf What is Mr. Silverman's position on the subject?
this Mr Silverman is on a ban for right now at very least.

2016-01-21, 15:06   #4
Gandolf

Jan 2016

368 Posts

Quote:
 Originally Posted by science_man_88 this Mr Silverman is on a ban for right now at very least.
Ok, thank you.

2016-01-21, 17:32   #5
CRGreathouse

Aug 2006

172C16 Posts

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Gandolf I am curious to know the actual consensus about the existence of these primes?
On my page
https://oeis.org/wiki/User:Charles_R...special_primes
I have three references on Wall-Sun-Sun primes. All agree that there should be infinitely many and that up to x you expect some multiple of log(log(x)) for large enough x. They disagree on what the multiple should be: Klaška suggests it should be 1/2, while Grell & Pend argue (more persuasively, IMO) that it should be 1. I haven't heard anyone suggest that there should be finitely many.

Last fiddled with by CRGreathouse on 2016-01-21 at 17:32

 2016-01-21, 18:43 #6 Gandolf     Jan 2016 111102 Posts Thanks Charles, that makes it clearer now. Do you have any idea why the conjecture appears named at OEIS as "the non-existence of Wall Sun Sun primes"?
2016-01-22, 02:50   #7
CRGreathouse

Aug 2006

134548 Posts

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Gandolf Do you have any idea why the conjecture appears named at OEIS as "the non-existence of Wall Sun Sun primes"?
I don't, but I can see in the revision history that the particular entry was written by a high-school student so I would take it cum grano salis. That particular page hasn't been reviewed yet -- most of the OEIS editors focus on the sequences rather than the wiki.

2016-01-22, 03:27   #8
Gandolf

Jan 2016

2×3×5 Posts

Quote:
 Originally Posted by CRGreathouse I don't, but I can see in the revision history that the particular entry was written by a high-school student so I would take it cum grano salis. That particular page hasn't been reviewed yet -- most of the OEIS editors focus on the sequences rather than the wiki.
Alright, the note section may indicate the reason why he named it that. Could you please read the references within it, and verify, since the name is changed now, it does not look consistent with the old reference.

http://arxiv.org/pdf/1102.1636v2.pdf

"The Wall-Sun-Sun prime conjecture is as follows,..There does not exist a prime p such that p^2 | F(p-(p|5))".

2016-01-22, 21:16   #9
CRGreathouse

Aug 2006

22×1,483 Posts

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Gandolf Alright, the note section may indicate the reason why he named it that. Could you please read the references within it, and verify, since the name is changed now, it does not look consistent with the old reference. http://arxiv.org/pdf/1102.1636v2.pdf "The Wall-Sun-Sun prime conjecture is as follows,..There does not exist a prime p such that p^2 | F(p-(p|5))".
The paper you cite was written, apparently, by two undergrads (sophomores, the paper says). It doesn't source the conjecture.

The Sun-Sun paper
http://matwbn.icm.edu.pl/ksiazki/aa/aa60/aa6046.pdf
doesn't make this conjecture. The Williams paper
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...98122182900268
says that "Wall's problem is to find a p such that ...", and suggests the 1/p heuristic which suggests infinitely many exist.

Peng
http://arxiv.org/abs/1511.05645
though says that Wall conjectured (something equivalent to the nonexistence of these primes). I don't have a copy of Wall's paper at the moment, but if so then this should properly be called Wall's conjecture rather than W-S-S since the latter two do not join him.

2016-01-22, 22:54   #10
jasonp
Tribal Bullet

Oct 2004

66418 Posts

Quote:
 Originally Posted by science_man_88 this Mr Silverman is on a ban for right now at very least.
Discussion on this moved to here

2016-01-23, 04:52   #11
kladner

"Kieren"
Jul 2011
In My Own Galaxy!

234078 Posts

Quote:
 Originally Posted by jasonp Discussion on this moved to here
Thanks.

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