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Old 2020-09-04, 04:10   #1035
masser
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by retina View Post
Do you have a lot of confidence in that claim?
Yes.
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Old 2020-09-04, 13:17   #1036
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Quote:
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Do you have a lot of confidence in that claim?
Yes, because Trump says so.

There will be a vaccine out on Nov. 1. He will make sure of it. The problem is that I would prefer a vaccine that was generated by the medical community instead of the political industry.

If this prediction is right, and like magic a vaccine appears on Nov. 1, I won't take it. Its effectiveness will have to be proven over time first.
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Old 2020-09-04, 13:23   #1037
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Quote:
Originally Posted by masser View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by retina View Post
Do you have a lot of confidence in that claim?
Yes.
When will we have it?

If it is five years away then you want to stay scared until then?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by retina View Post
Do you have a lot of confidence in that claim?
Yes, because Trump says so.
Touché.
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Old 2020-09-04, 13:51   #1038
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Quote:
Originally Posted by retina View Post
When will we have it?

If it is five years away then you want to stay scared until then?
The WHO says mid-2021.

I'll also note that protecting lives (potentially millions) is not cowardice.
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Old 2020-09-04, 15:03   #1039
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Quote:
Originally Posted by masser View Post
One more time, with feeling:
Off topic: All bourbon smells like kerosene to me. Sour-mash is much better.
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Old 2020-09-04, 16:02   #1040
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Governments around the world adopted lockdowns, social distancing measures, quarantines and mask mandates. But sure, if you want to get your panties in a bunch because a 14-yo may have suggested it first, enjoy your wedgie.
Coronaviruses have been known since the late 1920s; infecting humans since the 1960s. "Dorothy Hamre[31] and John Procknow at the University of Chicago isolated a novel cold from medical students in 1962. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coronavirus#History
There are reports of some immunity to CV19 as a result of infection previously by a different coronavirus. Preventing people from acquiring cross-immunity from a mild pathogen against a more dangerous pathogen is unwise, but that is widespread governmental mandate. Lockdown etc. was introduced when little was known, as erring on the side of caution. Now it is a political decision to continue, despite new information.

Quote:
Importantly, we detected SARS-CoV-2-reactive CD4+T cells in 40%–60% of unexposed individuals, suggesting cross-reactive T cell recognition between circulating ‘‘common cold’’ coronaviruses and SARS-CoV-2.
https://www.cell.com/action/showPdf?...2820%2930610-3
All that social distancing and handwashing etc. is reducing development and maintenance of immunity by reducing propagation of mild pathogens.

Last fiddled with by kriesel on 2020-09-04 at 16:05
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Old 2020-09-04, 16:55   #1041
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Why do you think that you know more than health authorities all over the world? You've selected a few data points, while they have seen those points plus hundreds, if not thousands, of other studies, with deeper understanding of the credibility of the studies and their implications.

On this issue, you're like the cranks who wonder into this forum and insist that because they determined that p, a 9 digit number is prime, that they've discovered the next Mersenne prime and it's Mp.
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Old 2020-09-04, 21:16   #1042
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kriesel View Post
All that social distancing and handwashing etc. is reducing development and maintenance of immunity by reducing propagation of mild pathogens.

FWIW, I think that statement is absolutely true. I also think that Health-Authorities and the present-day "science"-of-medicine are given much more credits than they deserve.
Having said all that, due to severe consequences of not social-distancing we are cornered and can not afford to make it a free for all. The quoted statement would apply to any pathogen. Would (generic)-you recommend business as usual if the pandemic was that of Cholera, Ebola or some other very deadly disease?

Last fiddled with by a1call on 2020-09-04 at 21:18
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Old 2020-09-04, 21:59   #1043
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kriesel View Post
All that social distancing and handwashing etc. is reducing development and maintenance of immunity by reducing propagation of mild pathogens.
Quote:
Originally Posted by a1call View Post
FWIW, I think that statement is absolutely true.
Immunity to what? Keeping clean does not change your body's ability to fight something like the chicken pox. That data is on file and ready to deploy when needed.
Your immune system does not have immunity to things you haven't been exposed to (by catching it or getting vaccinated).

Here is part of transcript (full PDF) of a Dr talking about this:

Quote:
Sydnee: Laura asked me about social distancing, and whether or not it can
weaken our immune system, and Laura was not the only one to ask that
question.
Many people have asked that, because it was one of the thing in that, uh—
the video, the press conference from those two urgent care doctors. Uh,
they mention this. And I—I—it was on my list of things to address, but I got
lost in statistics and forgot to mention it.
So, um, if you have heard people say that—and I think it's in that—actually,
I know, it's in that Plandemic, uh, thing too. That other… completely false,
bogus thing.
Um, that the idea that staying inside is making our immune systems weak,
and we're more at risk for… [pauses] General disease, COVID specifically,
whatever.
Um, this is false. I think—here is what I think they are trying to… I think
they're trying to make connections between things that aren't connected, to
confuse people.
Justin: Okay.
Sydnee: Okay. I think they're sort of referencing the hygiene hypothesis.
Have you heard of that before?
Justin: Hmm… I feel like we've talked about it before.
Sydnee: I think we've mentioned it. It's a way of explaining why there's
more, like, incident of allergies and, um, uh, like, contact dermatitis, like
atopic disease and asthma and things like that nowadays.
Justin: The theory being that we make ourselves too clean, and so, our
body doesn't develop the, uh, immune responses that we need to…
pathogens.
Sydnee: Well, we have an exaggerated immune response, really, is what
we're, uh, assuming, because we're not exposed to these things early
enough.
Justin: Okay.
Sydnee: It's similar to the idea, if you—if you have little kids, or if you have,
in the past, you know, if you have bigger kids that used to be little, or you
have a lot of contact with little kids, you may have heard the
recommendations about food introduction change through the years.
We used to say, wait when it comes to, like, nut butters, things that have a
higher likelihood of having allergies to. And now, we say you should
introduce them earlier.
Justin: It's even, like, since we've had kids, right?
Sydnee: Yeah. It has changed even since then. Like, give a baby peanut
butter, because then they're less likely to be allergic to peanuts later.
Justin: Uh-huh. And 'cause they love it, and their little mouths go…
[smacking noises] It's adorable.
Sydnee: [laughs quietly] They—they do love peanut butter. Uh, so I think
that's what they're kind of… trying to talk about with this. The idea that, like,
when we're younger, if we're not exposed to a lot of stuff, maybe we're more
likely to have allergies to stuff later on.
I—but that's a whole—first of all, allergy is a whole other thing… that isn't a
virus or a bacteria, obviously. So they're—they're not related, but I think
that might be what they're talking to.
It is fair to say that you can't develop antibodies to a specific infection until
you're exposed to it, right?
Justin: Right.
Sydnee: Like… you and I, as far as we know, have not been exposed to
coronavirus, to this specific—
Justin: Right.
Sydnee: —to, you know, novel coronavirus, so we do not have antibodies
to it. Now, in this example, I am a healthcare worker. I have probably been
exposed to and developed antibodies against maybe a higher number of
pathogens than you. Let's theorize that.
Justin: Okay.
Sydnee: I don't know if that's true, but let's—
Justin: It sounds right.
Sydnee: —let's—let's say it.
Justin: I do some na—I get up to some nasty stuff, so I'm not gonna just
100% grant it to you, but okay. Let's assume it.
Sydnee: My—now, you and I, though, have not been exposed to
coronavirus. If we are exposed to coronavirus, neither of us have antibodies
to it. We both are at risk for an infection. That's it.
It does not matter how many other things I have antibodies to. My immune
system is not stronger than yours. It's a one to one thing. So this is a really
weird argument to try to make with people; the idea that you need to be out
in the world exposing yourself to other viruses and bacteria so that you'll be
ready… for when you get COVID.
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Old 2020-09-04, 23:35   #1044
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncwilly View Post
Immunity to what? Keeping clean does not change your body's ability to fight something like the chicken pox. That data is on file and ready to deploy when needed.
Your immune system does not have immunity to things you haven't been exposed to (by catching it or getting vaccinated).

Here is part of transcript (full PDF) of a Dr talking about this:
An interesting read. I grew up in farm country, meaning I practically lived outside. There were lots of horses, cattle, pigs, sheep. chickens, and other animals in close proximity. Most of the farmers raised tobacco, corn, soybeans, wheat, clover, and alfalfa. I lived in this type environment until I was 26. I have never had any type of allergies. It was extremely rare for me to become ill. Neither did my brothers and a sister, or my parents. This was far from the sterile lives people try to live now. Perhaps there is something to this...
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Old 2020-09-05, 02:18   #1045
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It is in a way parallel in operation to use of antibiotics to destroy bad-bacteria and in the process destroy the Healthy/Beneficial-Bacteria-Cultures of the digestive tract.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/release...0926082539.htm
But we still have to use antibiotics (the full course of) when needed since the alternative can be worse.
Social-distancing is to viruses/bacteria, what is antibiotics to bacteria.

Last fiddled with by a1call on 2020-09-05 at 02:22
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