mersenneforum.org  

Go Back   mersenneforum.org > Extra Stuff > Science & Technology

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2018-03-10, 20:24   #1
a1call
 
a1call's Avatar
 
"Rashid Naimi"
Oct 2015
Remote to Here/There

87E16 Posts
Default International Date Line

It's the jagged longitudinal line either side of which has a different date.

There is nothing international about it since it is not based on any international treaty whatsoever.

The only interactional thing about it is that it messes up calenders around the world by being a static line.

All Earth would enjoy having a single date all over it, if and only if, the dateline would shift every year to the longitude where it is midnight on new year's day/eve.

The only difference would be that leap years will be observed in about 1/4 of the earth only, every year.

The subject might be hard to grasp at 1st, so please try to understand the mechanics before commenting.

Thanks in advance.
a1call is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2018-03-10, 20:40   #2
Dubslow
Basketry That Evening!
 
Dubslow's Avatar
 
"Bunslow the Bold"
Jun 2011
40<A<43 -89<O<-88

3×29×83 Posts
Default

Quote:
All Earth would enjoy having a single date all over it, if and only if, the dateline would shift every year to the longitude where it is midnight on new year's day/eve.
This sentence is completely nonsensical.

Quote:
All Earth would enjoy having a single date all over it
That can never ever be true, not if you want to maintain the "everyone's date changes at the same local solar time". So either you're suggesting that half the world changes dates while the sun is up (which would be a significant hassle to daily-local life, unlike the current system), or you're not suggesting anything at all.

Quote:
the dateline would shift every year to the longitude where it is midnight on new year's day/eve
I think you misunderstand what "new year" means. There is no physical/astronomical/etc significance to "new year" -- it only means "when local solar time reaches midnight once every 365/366 days". You might be suggesting that we pick some timezone as "the" timezone, like the previous sentence, and glorify that particular "new year" as everyone's new year, but that leads to the same problem as the previous paragraph -- the date changing while the sun is up for half the world.
Dubslow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2018-03-10, 20:52   #3
a1call
 
a1call's Avatar
 
"Rashid Naimi"
Oct 2015
Remote to Here/There

87E16 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by a1call View Post

The subject might be hard to grasp at 1st, so please try to understand the mechanics before commenting.
Thanks in advance.
a1call is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2018-03-10, 20:54   #4
science_man_88
 
science_man_88's Avatar
 
"Forget I exist"
Jul 2009
Dumbassville

203008 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by a1call View Post
It's the jagged longitudinal line either side of which has a different date.

There is nothing international about it since it is not based on any international treaty whatsoever.

The only interactional thing about it is that it messes up calenders around the world by being a static line.

All Earth would enjoy having a single date all over it, if and only if, the dateline would shift every year to the longitude where it is midnight on new year's day/eve.

The only difference would be that leap years will be observed in about 1/4 of the earth only, every year.

The subject might be hard to grasp at 1st, so please try to understand the mechanics before commenting.

Thanks in advance.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5wpm-gesOY
science_man_88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2018-03-10, 21:05   #5
a1call
 
a1call's Avatar
 
"Rashid Naimi"
Oct 2015
Remote to Here/There

87E16 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dubslow View Post
This sentence is completely nonsensical.


That can never ever be true, not if you want to maintain the "everyone's date changes at the same local solar time". So either you're suggesting that half the world changes dates while the sun is up (which would be a significant hassle to daily-local life, unlike the current system), or you're not suggesting anything at all.



I think you misunderstand what "new year" means. There is no physical/astronomical/etc significance to "new year" -- it only means "when local solar time reaches midnight once every 365/366 days". You might be suggesting that we pick some timezone as "the" timezone, like the previous sentence, and glorify that particular "new year" as everyone's new year, but that leads to the same problem as the previous paragraph -- the date changing while the sun is up for half the world.
Different calendars have different ways of determining new year's day.
Persian calendar for example is synchronised such that the spring equinox is observed on that day.
Gregorian calendar is synchronised by observing leap years on years which are divisible by 4 but not 100,...
Your comments are relevant to calendars which are not synced on orbital events such as the Gregorian calendar.
For such calendars you can keep the static dateline but observe leap years in about 1/4 of the Earth each year. This way you will have a single date through out the Earth.
For calenders which are synced using astronomical events such as the Persian calendar, the date line will have to shift every year.

Last fiddled with by a1call on 2018-03-10 at 21:13
a1call is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2018-03-10, 21:41   #6
a1call
 
a1call's Avatar
 
"Rashid Naimi"
Oct 2015
Remote to Here/There

2·1,087 Posts
Default

Shifting the date line by about 5:47: ... every year or alternatively keeping it static and observing a leap year every year in about 1/4 of the Earth will ensure that orbital events such as the equinoxes occur on the same date through out the Earth. This is not currently the case.
For example this year I believe, the Spring Equinox occurs on 21st of March in Asia and 20th of March in Americas.
a1call is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2018-03-10, 22:08   #7
science_man_88
 
science_man_88's Avatar
 
"Forget I exist"
Jul 2009
Dumbassville

26·131 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by a1call View Post
Shifting the date line by about 5:47: ... every year or alternatively keeping it static and observing a leap year every year in about 1/4 of the Earth will ensure that orbital events such as the equinoxes occur on the same date through out the Earth. This is not currently the case.
For example this year I believe, the Spring Equinox occurs on 21st of March in Asia and 20th of March in Americas.
Might also be latitude effects. Okay yeah I'm thinking other things.

Last fiddled with by science_man_88 on 2018-03-10 at 22:08
science_man_88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2018-03-10, 22:12   #8
a1call
 
a1call's Avatar
 
"Rashid Naimi"
Oct 2015
Remote to Here/There

41768 Posts
Default

Japan time zone vs Eastern time zone solar orbital events.
Please see the attachments.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	image.png
Views:	206
Size:	82.0 KB
ID:	17858  

Last fiddled with by a1call on 2018-03-10 at 22:14
a1call is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2018-03-10, 22:16   #9
a1call
 
a1call's Avatar
 
"Rashid Naimi"
Oct 2015
Remote to Here/There

2×1,087 Posts
Default

Eastern time zone orbital events
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	image.png
Views:	209
Size:	83.6 KB
ID:	17859  
a1call is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2018-03-10, 22:47   #10
science_man_88
 
science_man_88's Avatar
 
"Forget I exist"
Jul 2009
Dumbassville

26·131 Posts
Default

Having an earth with one date, requires an earth with one time(UTC), or no start to a new day. Proof: Assume an earth with more than one time. Assume the two or more times are a positive integer number of time units seperated. These two or more times have an ordering. This means one goes through the next start of the day first. Contradicting the premise that a planet with more than one time doesn't have two dates at the same time.
science_man_88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2018-03-10, 22:53   #11
a1call
 
a1call's Avatar
 
"Rashid Naimi"
Oct 2015
Remote to Here/There

2·1,087 Posts
Default

You are correct SM. I am bad at expressing concepts. What I meant to say is that the same solar orbital events would occur on the same dates through out the world after one syncing and shifting the dateline every year afterwards.
I can only attach one attachment per post on my iPhone.
Same time zones in 1979:

Eastern time zones
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	image.png
Views:	203
Size:	85.2 KB
ID:	17860  

Last fiddled with by a1call on 2018-03-10 at 22:55
a1call is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
How to display the date davieddy Forum Feedback 3 2011-06-12 00:45
Date format Mini-Geek Lounge 21 2007-03-17 01:36
M43 discovery date Prime95 Lounge 55 2006-01-30 19:51
Expiry date? John PrimeNet 3 2005-06-05 10:54
44th International Mathematical Olympiad IMO2003 problem A1 eepiccolo Puzzles 0 2003-07-24 12:17

All times are UTC. The time now is 03:03.


Wed Dec 1 03:03:23 UTC 2021 up 130 days, 21:32, 3 users, load averages: 3.12, 2.28, 1.88

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum has received and complied with 0 (zero) government requests for information.

Permission is granted to copy, distribute and/or modify this document under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.2 or any later version published by the Free Software Foundation.
A copy of the license is included in the FAQ.