mersenneforum.org  

Go Back   mersenneforum.org > Extra Stuff > Soap Box

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2017-12-20, 21:36   #1
VictordeHolland
 
VictordeHolland's Avatar
 
"Victor de Hollander"
Aug 2011
the Netherlands

23×3×72 Posts
Question Overpopulation? Is it a real threat?

The human population is expected to increase to more than 11 billion by 2100 (currently it sits at ~7.5 billion). See attachment based on medium fertility projections.

Can the earth sustain that many people? Without killing all habitats, and killing many animals that will even go extinct?

Assuming the developing countries catch up and everybody gets the standard of living we have in the developed countries:

Can humans sustainably grow enough food?
(which needs fresh water) Cows and pigs need a lot of food before they can be "harvested", should we all become veggies?

Can humans produce enough energy in 2100 to provide our standard of living to the entire world?
Without putting even more greenhouse gasses in the atmosphere....
(Primary) Energy consumption between 1990 and 2008 grew 39%, while the population grew 27%. World Primary Energy Supply in 2013 was 1.575 × 10^17 Wh (157.5 PWh, 5.67 × 10^20 joules) Of which approximately 7% was produced by hydro, 2% (other renewables) and 4% nuclear. The remaining 87% was from consumables (33% coal, 30% oil, 24 natural gas). There is enough coal, oil and gas to last another 100 years, but CO2 levels would skyrocket....

Population control?
- One of the best ways to slow population growth is to give people better/higher education and provide higher standard of living (= less babies).
- Another way is a China like: 'one child policy'
- Unethically: kill the elderly ?
- Hypothetically: Helix (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2758950/) like fashion: a virus which kills a major portion of the population

If we don't kill the climate and don't annihilate the human race with WW3, is overpopulation the next threat/problem for the human race?

P.S. Don't kill your grannies just yet ;).
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	updated-World-Population-Growth-1750-2100[1].png
Views:	139
Size:	235.5 KB
ID:	17370  
VictordeHolland is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2017-12-20, 22:50   #2
Uncwilly
6809 > 6502
 
Uncwilly's Avatar
 
"""""""""""""""""""
Aug 2003
101×103 Posts

2×34×59 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by VictordeHolland View Post
P.S. Don't kill your grannies just yet ;).
It is not the grannies, it is those who have yet to live past their breeding years. Grannies are not going to be popping anymore biscuits out of the oven. Those who have yet to expend their supplies of ammo are the most dangerous. Empty guns are little to no threat.
Uncwilly is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2017-12-20, 22:53   #3
petrw1
1976 Toyota Corona years forever!
 
petrw1's Avatar
 
"Wayne"
Nov 2006
Saskatchewan, Canada

2×7×331 Posts
Default

Remove all warning labels and signs and let natural selection take care of the problem.

I accept this might not be the least bit funny to many of you... if so I apologize.
petrw1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2017-12-20, 23:34   #4
ewmayer
2ω=0
 
ewmayer's Avatar
 
Sep 2002
República de California

2D6C16 Posts
Default

Overpopulation is not merely *a* threat, it is *the* threat - all of our other global environmental problems are either a direct result of it, or amplified multiplicatively by it. Of course we should not ignore the regional inequitable-distribution problems, either, e.g. rampant out-of-control wealth inequality worldwide as the global Looter Elite continue to tighten their grip on the world's governments and economies. And imagine if (or when) a billion-plus Indians and Chinese finally realize their promised 'economic-miracles' and consume like Americans.
ewmayer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2017-12-21, 11:39   #5
M344587487
 
M344587487's Avatar
 
"Composite as Heck"
Oct 2017

14328 Posts
Default

I think it is a big problem, which cannot (ethically) be solved proactively. Procreation is too heavily ingrained in society as the natural course of action. Things will have to get much worse, to breaking point and beyond no doubt, before workable solutions are palatable. I like the one child policy as one measure, but what really needs to change is people's attitudes. Unfortunately most economies have no incentive to be proactive, they're built on consumers consuming. Work, consume, get married, consume, have kids, consume. Less kids means less consumption.

[Spoiler from 1999]: Reminds me of Deus Ex, a game in which the shadowy mega rich create a virus to infect the world, providing a "cure" to those who can afford it.
M344587487 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2017-12-21, 12:09   #6
science_man_88
 
science_man_88's Avatar
 
"Forget I exist"
Jul 2009
Dumbassville

100000110000002 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by M344587487 View Post
I think it is a big problem, which cannot (ethically) be solved proactively. Procreation is too heavily ingrained in society as the natural course of action. Things will have to get much worse, to breaking point and beyond no doubt, before workable solutions are palatable. I like the one child policy as one measure, but what really needs to change is people's attitudes. Unfortunately most economies have no incentive to be proactive, they're built on consumers consuming. Work, consume, get married, consume, have kids, consume. Less kids means less consumption.

[Spoiler from 1999]: Reminds me of Deus Ex, a game in which the shadowy mega rich create a virus to infect the world, providing a "cure" to those who can afford it.
Autism could be a good thing for society then, it limits population growth potentially. Or at least that works in my case. I never plan on having any kids. my father's line is not worth extending.

Last fiddled with by science_man_88 on 2017-12-21 at 12:10
science_man_88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2017-12-21, 12:15   #7
retina
Undefined
 
retina's Avatar
 
"The unspeakable one"
Jun 2006
My evil lair

22·5·307 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by science_man_88 View Post
Autism could be a good thing for society then, it limits population growth potentially. Or at least that works in my case. I never plan on having any kids. my father's line is not worth extending.
But that makes it impossible to "breed in" autism, because they'd never have any offspring.

You'd have to rely upon the non-autistic breeders to have autistic offspring. I don't think there are as yet any known methods to ensure a child will be autistic during conception. And who would choose that anyway?
retina is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2017-12-21, 13:15   #8
science_man_88
 
science_man_88's Avatar
 
"Forget I exist"
Jul 2009
Dumbassville

26×131 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by retina View Post
But that makes it impossible to "breed in" autism, because they'd never have any offspring.

You'd have to rely upon the non-autistic breeders to have autistic offspring. I don't think there are as yet any known methods to ensure a child will be autistic during conception. And who would choose that anyway?
no but there's a lot of genes related to it supposedly:

https://spectrumnews.org/news/autism...ics-explained/
science_man_88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2017-12-21, 13:43   #9
M344587487
 
M344587487's Avatar
 
"Composite as Heck"
Oct 2017

2×397 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by science_man_88 View Post
Autism could be a good thing for society then, it limits population growth potentially. Or at least that works in my case. I never plan on having any kids. my father's line is not worth extending.
I have a hard time wrapping my head around autism, particularly on whether the milder end of the spectrum is necessarily bad or even deserves the label. It doesn't help that the word autism has negative connotations. I have many of the traits that you'd typically list off for mild autism, but to me it's just fundamentally how I think. Anxiety in social situations, a harder time interacting and the tendency to overthink are definitely negatives, but at least some of what makes up autism as a label seems to just be wrongthink, the idea that you think differently to the norm and that that is somehow bad. I don't think that the consequence of a runaway thought process labelled as "autistic-like" being negative, necessarily makes that thought process bad. It's all about moderation, which I guess redefines a good chunk of autism to "a spectrum of those that have trouble moderating their own thoughts".

At first I thought your statement of "autism could be a good thing for society" was inflammatory, but the more I think about it the more sense it makes.
M344587487 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2017-12-21, 14:08   #10
science_man_88
 
science_man_88's Avatar
 
"Forget I exist"
Jul 2009
Dumbassville

26×131 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by M344587487 View Post
I have a hard time wrapping my head around autism, particularly on whether the milder end of the spectrum is necessarily bad or even deserves the label. It doesn't help that the word autism has negative connotations. I have many of the traits that you'd typically list off for mild autism, but to me it's just fundamentally how I think. Anxiety in social situations, a harder time interacting and the tendency to overthink are definitely negatives, but at least some of what makes up autism as a label seems to just be wrongthink, the idea that you think differently to the norm and that that is somehow bad. I don't think that the consequence of a runaway thought process labelled as "autistic-like" being negative, necessarily makes that thought process bad. It's all about moderation, which I guess redefines a good chunk of autism to "a spectrum of those that have trouble moderating their own thoughts".

At first I thought your statement of "autism could be a good thing for society" was inflammatory, but the more I think about it the more sense it makes.
Yeah, the term itself is somewhat in need of an update. Autism means a belief or practice of oneself, and was coined when it was thought to be part of schizophrenia. Today it's part of the autism spectrum. the autism spectrum is part of the pervasive development disorder spectrum. more on topic with the thread now, the problem with overpopulation is it just another multiplier to all the other effects. An example of the multiplier effect in action from real life is that my father has a cousin with eyesight/eye problems recently, but I have now found enough applications and settings to magnify a 1 cm by 1 cm square to roughly the size of a 27 by 27 cm square. This comes from the fact that you can scale by 150% ( I believe in both directions so a factor of 2.25) in windows, then change screen resolution making things 4 times the area, then using windows magnifier and zoom into the 1600% setting, then if you are in a browser they can zoom into about 500% so 2.25*4*5*16 =20*16*2.25 = 320*2.25 =720 times the size. hope that clears up the sight issue.

Last fiddled with by science_man_88 on 2017-12-21 at 14:09
science_man_88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2017-12-21, 16:08   #11
Dr Sardonicus
 
Dr Sardonicus's Avatar
 
Feb 2017
Nowhere

7×647 Posts
Default

Some fictional works bearing on the topic:

Theodore Sturgeon Not an Affair (novelette) The Magazine of Fantasy & Science Fiction, October 1983

Richard Cowper A message to the King of Brobdingnag (novella) The Magazine of Fantasy and Science Fiction, May 1984

Jack Wiliamson The Birds’ Turn (short story) The Magazine of Fantasy and Science Fiction Oct/Nov 1992

Stargate SG-1 episode "2010" (January 12, 2001)

IMO, the Theodore Sturgeon story has the most interesting idea.
Dr Sardonicus is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Official "World cup 2014/2018" teat LaurV Hobbies 74 2018-07-11 19:33
Is this for real??? kurtulmehtap Math 2 2014-09-29 14:16
Scientific musings threat jasong Soap Box 2 2014-08-10 19:25
Have we seen the last David Mabus threat? cheesehead Soap Box 0 2011-08-20 18:04
Is this guy for real? CRGreathouse Math 21 2010-08-23 18:05

All times are UTC. The time now is 19:16.

Sat May 8 19:16:09 UTC 2021 up 30 days, 13:57, 0 users, load averages: 3.34, 3.69, 3.60

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum has received and complied with 0 (zero) government requests for information.

Permission is granted to copy, distribute and/or modify this document under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.2 or any later version published by the Free Software Foundation.
A copy of the license is included in the FAQ.